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Post by rmcalhoun on Jan 31, 2019 21:51:26 GMT -6
I will not talk about this if I ignore it it will go away... Carry on A wise policy. When this topic raises it head every couple months I just grab my ball and go home. I know whats going to eventually happen.. It makes me sad
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Post by cardfan on Jan 31, 2019 21:56:41 GMT -6
When this topic raises it head every couple months I just grab my ball and go home. I know whats going to eventually happen.. It makes me sad It sucks.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 31, 2019 22:04:13 GMT -6
It really should be an embarrassment to the conference to see the crowds at those weeknight games and those meaningless bowl games.
I try to watch MAC football when Cards don’t play and it’s depressing. Even the people who actually DO show up don’t seem to be watching.
MACtion......put it out of its misery. 🧨💣🧨
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Post by cardcat on Jan 31, 2019 22:34:11 GMT -6
What’s more attractive, an occasional meh 6-6 to 8-4 bowl team losing a meh bowl to a meh team, or a team maybe making the FCS playoffs fairly often with a chance at a run to a national championship? I'll take the 6-6/8-4 scenario any day of the week. How many people on this board (let alone the country) can tell you who was relevant (say top 10) in the FCS this year, last year, any year??? Are you confident that this will happen for BSU? I've seen highs and lows, Indiana State, Liberty, New Hampshire these teams aren't FCS world beaters and they handled us. Attendance can’t get any worse than it already is Disagree. Indiana State v Illinois State was approx a padded 4k in Terre Haute this year. This was an Illinois State that was ranked in the top 25 (Ohhh... Ahhhh, the crowd roars). Currently if we bring in a top 80 P5 team to Muncie we are near 20K. I'm not disparaging either of these teams or schools. I'm just pointing out that it can and will get much worse if we drop to FCS.and we are hemorrhaging money bad. Budgets throughout the athletic department are getting cut or remain stagnant. I love college football and never want it completely dropped but our path and the MAC’s path is not sustainable. I've been hearing this for years ....AND...... here we are. A lot more could be done to bring revenue from a conference and individual school standpoint. Only a handful of Mac schools have the stomach and the desire to truly compete in football. The rest of us ate hanging in by a thread and have to prostitute ourselves vs power 5 schools for the paycheck. What is your definition of prostitution? Wages for work? I hope everyone understands playing Clemson, Michigan, ND, Oklahoma, Nebraska, Virginia, UCF (the best team we ever played IMO), Auburn, IU, PU, BC is a recruiting tool AND a payday. And every now and then David rises and smites Goliath or gives him a really bad MF'in headache and a black and blue lump on his head that he has to walk around town with for long time. On this day, it all makes sense, on this day it is soooo worth every damn penny and tear shed to get here. On this day, we say WE ARE......BALL STATE, we can compete, we belong here.
I’d rather see the entire athletic department have a chance rather than continually lying to ourselves about football and it draining us to the point of having to do something drastic. I'd rather see BSU gets the most bang for their $$. For many reasons, I believe that to be Football. Always remember it is an expense. Additionally it is not that much (if any) of a savings to drop down to FCS. The expense reduction through lowering the scholarship limit barely moves the needle. It is like saying it costs $50k/yr to house an inmate, so every inmate you don't send to jail saves the state/taxpayers $50k. So if they just didn't send 20 people to jail - they saved $1M. It doesn't cost much to house, feed and educate an athlete. The incremental (marginal) costs of an 85 extra units (aka students) to a 22k unit operation are minimal. Facilities, staff and travel are what costs. You also would be giving up big payday games. Who thinks ND is ever going to play Indiana State?
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Post by cardfan on Feb 1, 2019 4:26:37 GMT -6
We’ve brought maybe 3 power 5 teams (I can think of Boston College, Missouri, and iu) to bsu and haven’t hit 20k for any of them except for IU. And that was because it was IU. They, nor any other team that might draw 20k are not coming to Bsu again. Otherwise we have to have a team like the 08 team that generated national buzz and a ranking, was undefeated, had Nate Davis, etc) to draw anybody. When are are we going to do that again? The last 4 years I’ve sat at Tuesday night games with about 2000 people. I mean the place is empty. And we ended up with padded 4-5 k attendance numbers.
I guess it all depends on how long we can live on the student fees subsidizing the football program without other revenue streams coming in to help fund football. It operates at a loss annually. If students start pushing back on the fees that go up every year and enrollment drops, then what?
Again, I’m not in favor of making any kind of move without a study of what each kind of move might cost. But I am telling you what we are doing now is not sustainable. I know that coaches have been told to expect budget cuts by the administration. Coaches are privately complaining about finances. (They won’t do it publicly, although Pete Lembo railed about commitment and funding fairly often). A new budget model is being rolled out by the president/bot and there’s quite a bit of concern internally about how it will impact athletics.
I guess we’ll see. I hope we can somehow hold on and stay FBS. But whatever happens, I’ll be going to the games. I have been since I was little and we hadn’t joined the MAC yet and played Butler and Youngstown, etc. People went to games back then. They don’t now. If the product remains bad they aren’t coming back. Especially to watch a bad team on a Tuesday night in November with shitty weather.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 1, 2019 6:44:42 GMT -6
Correctomundo......when we can barely handle FCS schools today, we certainly wouldn’t want to drop down and play them every week.
Great point for staying in FBS. I’ve changed my mind.
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Post by cardcat on Feb 1, 2019 7:16:33 GMT -6
We’ve brought maybe 3 power 5 teams (I can think of Boston College, Missouri, and iu) to bsu and haven’t hit 20k for any of them except for IU. Attendance has definitely been on a down turn, but here are the numbers:
23,813 vs. Indiana, 9/9/2006 23,718 vs. Boston College, 9/2/2004 17,371 vs Missouri, 9/6/2003 (I was off but close enough)
If you want to go off top MAC visits coming to Muncie: 23,861 vs. Western Michigan, 11/25/2008 21,581 vs. Toledo, 11/6/1997 21,581 vs. Toledo, 11/16/1996 21,527 vs. Central Michigan, 10/18/1997 21,278 vs. Toledo, 10/20/2001 21,119 vs. Akron, 11/1/1997 21,037 vs. Kent State, 11/9/1996 20,948 vs. Eastern Michigan, 10/25/2008 20,757 vs. Central Michigan, 11/3/2001 20,752 vs. Akron, 10/2/1999 20,437 vs. Kent State, 9/27/2008 20,415 vs. Marshall, 9/27/1997
Non AQ Out of Conference FBS Schools coming to Muncie:
22,517 vs. Navy, 9/5/2008 15,824 vs W. KY 10/3/2007 16,054 vs N. Texas 9/3/2009 15,288 vs Army 9/24/2011 16,397 vs S. Florida 9/22/12
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Post by sweep on Feb 1, 2019 7:21:41 GMT -6
Moving to the Missouri Valley would increase travel expense, plus (probably) lose out on many of the big $$ games... That's part of the issue, it's not a huge expense drop and a revenue hit if you move down to FCS. I think you either drop football completely or stay put.
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Post by sweep on Feb 1, 2019 7:24:32 GMT -6
What’s more attractive, an occasional meh 6-6 to 8-4 bowl team losing a meh bowl to a meh team, or a team maybe making the FCS playoffs fairly often with a chance at a run to a national championship? What makes you believe we would be any better than 'Meh" in the FCS ?
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Post by cardfan on Feb 1, 2019 8:00:55 GMT -6
What’s more attractive, an occasional meh 6-6 to 8-4 bowl team losing a meh bowl to a meh team, or a team maybe making the FCS playoffs fairly often with a chance at a run to a national championship? What makes you believe we would be any better than 'Meh" in the FCS ? Well there is that.
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Post by JacksonStreetElite on Feb 1, 2019 8:19:29 GMT -6
Taking money totally out of the picture I don't know if we can compete with the top tier FCS teams in the playoff. At least as FBS we can argue that our complete failure as a program is due to institutional bias against the smaller conferences. If we go FCS and finish 3rd in the Mo. Valley or something then we'll have nowhere to hide. I'm probably underestimating our collective excuse making capabilities. But (again not considering money), I'd rather be a loser at the top level than a loser at the bottom. Putting money back into the picture, terminate the program.
EDIT: I should read the whole thread before posting, looks like this argument has already been made...
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Post by cardfan on Feb 1, 2019 8:21:59 GMT -6
We’ve brought maybe 3 power 5 teams (I can think of Boston College, Missouri, and iu) to bsu and haven’t hit 20k for any of them except for IU. Attendance has definitely been on a down turn, but here are the numbers:
23,813 vs. Indiana, 9/9/2006 23,718 vs. Boston College, 9/2/2004 17,371 vs Missouri, 9/6/2003 (I was off but close enough)
If you want to go off top MAC visits coming to Muncie: 23,861 vs. Western Michigan, 11/25/2008 21,581 vs. Toledo, 11/6/1997 21,581 vs. Toledo, 11/16/1996 21,527 vs. Central Michigan, 10/18/1997 21,278 vs. Toledo, 10/20/2001 21,119 vs. Akron, 11/1/1997 21,037 vs. Kent State, 11/9/1996 20,948 vs. Eastern Michigan, 10/25/2008 20,757 vs. Central Michigan, 11/3/2001 20,752 vs. Akron, 10/2/1999 20,437 vs. Kent State, 9/27/2008 20,415 vs. Marshall, 9/27/1997
Non AQ Out of Conference FBS Schools coming to Muncie:
22,517 vs. Navy, 9/5/2008 15,824 vs W. KY 10/3/2007 16,054 vs N. Texas 9/3/2009 15,288 vs Army 9/24/2011 16,397 vs S. Florida 9/22/12
Most of those are from the 90’s and earlier 2000s. Latest one is 2012? And I worked at most of those games in the 90’s and those numbers are inflated. Once the Mac went to weeknight games it dropped off the cliff. Plus we aren’t competitive as we need to be to draw. I guess I’m saying your argument doesn’t hold as much water as it used to because attendance just isn’t there anymore. If we get 10-12k now we feel good about it. The better argument that needs to be made is the overall revenue for the athletic department that football brings. I think the admin needs to prove that we are sustainable and that without fbs football we drown. Or we have to dump football completely and that ain’t happening and I don’t ever want that. The numbers from 2014/15 showed football was 75% subsidized. And That’s before the student fees were increased. If we could start winning again it’d be much easier to keep people happy.
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Post by cardfan on Feb 1, 2019 8:23:19 GMT -6
Taking money totally out of the picture I don't know if we can compete with the top tier FCS teams in the playoff. At least as FBS we can argue that our complete failure as a program is due to institutional bias against the smaller conferences. If we go FCS and finish 3rd in the Mo. Valley or something then we'll have nowhere to hide. I'm probably underestimating our collective excuse making capabilities. But (again not considering money), I'd rather be a loser at the top level than a loser at the bottom. Putting money back into the picture, terminate the program.
EDIT: I should read the whole thread before posting, looks like this argument has already been made...
You’re not wrong. I’m not convinced we even have the commitment to win at the FCS level. This a debate worth kicking around at-least and that’s all I’m doing.
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Post by JacksonStreetElite on Feb 1, 2019 8:24:35 GMT -6
We’ve brought maybe 3 power 5 teams (I can think of Boston College, Missouri, and iu) to bsu and haven’t hit 20k for any of them except for IU. Attendance has definitely been on a down turn, but here are the numbers:
23,813 vs. Indiana, 9/9/2006 23,718 vs. Boston College, 9/2/2004 17,371 vs Missouri, 9/6/2003 (I was off but close enough)
If you want to go off top MAC visits coming to Muncie: 23,861 vs. Western Michigan, 11/25/2008 21,581 vs. Toledo, 11/6/1997 21,581 vs. Toledo, 11/16/1996 21,527 vs. Central Michigan, 10/18/1997 21,278 vs. Toledo, 10/20/2001 21,119 vs. Akron, 11/1/1997 21,037 vs. Kent State, 11/9/1996 20,948 vs. Eastern Michigan, 10/25/2008 20,757 vs. Central Michigan, 11/3/2001 20,752 vs. Akron, 10/2/1999 20,437 vs. Kent State, 9/27/2008 20,415 vs. Marshall, 9/27/1997
Non AQ Out of Conference FBS Schools coming to Muncie:
22,517 vs. Navy, 9/5/2008 15,824 vs W. KY 10/3/2007 16,054 vs N. Texas 9/3/2009 15,288 vs Army 9/24/2011 16,397 vs S. Florida 9/22/12
What is crazy is that I remember seeing an article in the DN when I was a senior and I had attended 4 of the 5 least attended games at the time. Looking at the most attended games I also attended our top 4 most attended games.
I imagine there are new least attended games since 2007, but wow what a swing we've had.
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Post by JacksonStreetElite on Feb 1, 2019 8:25:33 GMT -6
That goes without saying...
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