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Post by 00hmh on Feb 1, 2019 8:55:49 GMT -6
I will not talk about this if I ignore it it will go away... Carry on A wise policy. BSUish in terms of administrative policy on athletics.
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Post by 00hmh on Feb 1, 2019 9:07:17 GMT -6
Again, I’m not in favor of making any kind of move without a study of what each kind of move might cost. But I am telling you what we are doing now is not sustainable. I know that coaches have been told to expect budget cuts by the administration...... A new budget model is being rolled out by the president/bot and there’s quite a bit of concern internally about how it will impact athletics. ......People went to games back then. They don’t now. If the product remains bad they aren’t coming back. Especially to watch a bad team on a Tuesday night in November with shitty weather. It's not just the product. Not just that we can't get IU or other schools to come to Muncie. When we saw big crowds (BB and FB) we were able to sell to a bigger and more affluent local demographic who had fewer choices in sports entertainment, and probably were just more interested in sports. TV sports including much more college FB is free and it's not just Saturday. College students came to BSU more used to supporting a school team. They were easier to motivate.
The crisis is not just increasing cost for FBS. Tighter budgets are not going to go away. Fans are not going to come in droves and save the day. Big TV is not all that interested in lowest level FBS FB.
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Post by 00hmh on Feb 1, 2019 9:08:50 GMT -6
Moving to the Missouri Valley would increase travel expense, plus (probably) lose out on many of the big $$ games... That's part of the issue, it's not a huge expense drop and a revenue hit if you move down to FCS. I think you either drop football completely or stay put. Probably right in terms of cold logic. But FB is not on the scene at its level now in mid majors as a matter of cold logic.
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Post by redbirdman on Feb 1, 2019 9:09:26 GMT -6
Stay in the MAC. The entire league will drop down in FB within 10 yrs. If we moved without a push to the MVC we would be just like ISU as far as ability to even qualify for the playoffs & our attendance would soon match theirs.Don't drop FB as long as the state's high schools play it. MAC Action should be limited to one game a wk for last 6 wks allowing all teams to play once a yr. Thus the other 10 teams play on Saturdays & you only lose a Saturday date once in 2 yrs. I am surprised ESPN has not dropped it ratings have to be bad except for the one team undefeated every 5 yrs.
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Post by cardcat on Feb 1, 2019 9:10:23 GMT -6
Most of those are from the 90’s and earlier 2000s. Latest one is 2012? And I worked at most of those games in the 90’s and those numbers are inflated. I'm just using real data, sorry for that. I said the P5 schools we brought in were close to 20k in attendance. You said only Indiana was. Wrong, BC was and Missouri was close enough. How much were the 90's number inflated??/ 10/20/30%? Did you count everyone personally?
Once the Mac went to weeknight games it dropped off the cliff. Plus we aren’t competitive as we need to be to draw. Agreed, no argument from me here.I guess I’m saying your argument doesn’t hold as much water as it used to because attendance just isn’t there anymore. If we get 10-12k now we feel good about it. Which is much better than it would be playing the Penguins in FCS. The better argument that needs to be made is the overall revenue for the athletic department that football brings. I think the admin needs to prove that we are sustainable and that without fbs football we drown. Or we have to dump football completely and that ain’t happening and I don’t ever want that. The numbers from 2014/15 showed football was 75% subsidized. And That’s before the student fees were increased. To me, the argument is do you keep FBS sports or do you drop sports all together. Sports is an expensive marketing vehicle and status symbol. Marketing is expensive in general, I happen to think our $$ subsidizing all sports make sense - from a branding/marketing perspective. I am still waiting for someone to dispute the payday we took from ND this year wasn't a good deal and please find me anything else comparable that would raise our national profile equally this academic year. Remember this happened on a down year for football. How do we get an opp like this at the FCS level?If we could start winning again it’d be much easier to keep people happy. Brilliant, why hasn't anyone ever thought of this? All this damn time wasted and the answer was always right there in front of us. I'm gonna' email the coaches and AD right away!!!! You are all over the road and cherry picking your arguments. I addressed your points 1 by 1. My position is: 1. We will not be a top tier FCS team. Maybe slightly above average to start, but within 5 years we would relatively be right about where we are now in FBS. 2. There is no significant cost benefit in moving to FCS. 3. Attendance will go down.
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Post by cardrock on Feb 1, 2019 9:13:28 GMT -6
Possible solution: Not necessarily dropping down, however offering a different take. Seeing how lower tiers come to the end of a season with a playoff that results with a definite champion, what if the non-power 5 come together to have a playoff between themselves? Most agree the power 5 will not let a non-power 5 really sniff a chance to be listed in the final 4 at season’s end. I would imagine it would take a MAC school 5-6 years staying in the top ten to even have a serious chance, so many things won’t let that happen. For one, outside of Ohio most coaching staffs won’t even stay the same over a 5 year period. If a non-power 5 playoff came to be, wouldn’t there be a chance for increased $ if a school made a good run. Possible tv deals to cover an actual D1 playoff. Take each league champion, plus possibly 3 at large (maybe one could be an invite to an Independent). As many positives that could be listed there’s probably an equal # of negatives or more. One negative would be a solidified separation from the power 5 and potentially a ceiling to the amount of money possible, but isn’t that already in place- unspoken anyways. If for nothing else it might create enough uproar that maybe there’d be an overhaul of the whole business of D1 athletics. Interested in what others think. Really would hate to see any school drop.
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Post by redbirdman on Feb 1, 2019 9:27:08 GMT -6
Cardrock I agree with statement the non power 5 schools will never get a shot at the playoffs. But if the other leagues have their own playoff the NCAA will crown them champion of something other than the top level of FB. You therefore have actually dropped those programs down a level from the top. While I think from a competitive stand point it already is there those schools want to say they play in the top level.
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Post by cardcat on Feb 1, 2019 9:34:54 GMT -6
Possible solution: Not necessarily dropping down, however offering a different take. Seeing how lower tiers come to the end of a season with a playoff that results with a definite champion, what if the non-power 5 come together to have a playoff between themselves? Most agree the power 5 will not let a non-power 5 really sniff a chance to be listed in the final 4 at season’s end. I would imagine it would take a MAC school 5-6 years staying in the top ten to even have a serious chance, so many things won’t let that happen. For one, outside of Ohio most coaching staffs won’t even stay the same over a 5 year period. If a non-power 5 playoff came to be, wouldn’t there be a chance for increased $ if a school made a good run. Possible tv deals to cover an actual D1 playoff. Take each league champion, plus possibly 3 at large (maybe one could be an invite to an Independent). As many positives that could be listed there’s probably an equal # of negatives or more. One negative would be a solidified separation from the power 5 and potentially a ceiling to the amount of money possible, but isn’t that already in place- unspoken anyways. If for nothing else it might create enough uproar that maybe there’d be an overhaul of the whole business of D1 athletics. Interested in what others think. Really would hate to see any school drop. I don't hate it.... Kinda like the NIT of FBS
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Post by cardrock on Feb 1, 2019 9:52:00 GMT -6
Cardrock I agree with statement the non power 5 schools will never get a shot at the playoffs. But if the other leagues have their own playoff the NCAA will crown them champion of something other than the top level of FB. You therefore have actually dropped those programs down a level from the top. While I think from a competitive stand point it already is there those schools want to say they play in the top level. I think we’ve already dropped, just no one wants to admit it. We’re the politically correct bone that’s thrown each year or other year. It’s like a 3 year cycle. Every three years a non-power puts together a couple year run & the big boys have to swat it down then they eventually gobble up the coaching staff and the latest rebel fades back in to the murky below. Then it comes out how financially hard their short exposure was and we left debating “we should drop to FCS’” I’m thinking f@%€ it, lets accept the situation for what it is, find a way to generate $ to increase the potential of existence. We can print T-shirts with Division 1 Champs! What’s the power 5 gonna do, that’s not true.... while waving a finger?
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Post by cardrock on Feb 1, 2019 9:59:39 GMT -6
For what it’s worth I’d take a playoff of d1 / non-power 5 over dropping a level.
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Post by cardfan on Feb 1, 2019 10:12:01 GMT -6
That’d be pretty cool.
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Post by rmcalhoun on Feb 1, 2019 10:20:08 GMT -6
College football and basketball attendance has been down and will continue to go down across the board. You do not notice it at the big schools but most all smaller conferences are feeling the same way we are. The weekday games in the MAC just kill everyone. Saturday games in Muncie really have not been bad all things considered record wise. No matter how you cut it though we are near the bottom in attendance. Nothing will fix that except winning
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Post by grass on Feb 1, 2019 11:17:23 GMT -6
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Post by bsu0 on Feb 1, 2019 12:22:12 GMT -6
We need to win. If we win, the students will show up en masse. If we continue to win some former students will return. If we win on a regular (read several seasons...more than two or three) more alums will slowly filter back into the stadium on the north side of the campus. I have noticed before I moved 1600 miles away that the students were not showing during the Lembo era. They never really caught the fever like they did during the Nate Davis era. To get all these factions in the stadium ya just have to win. If ya win for several seasons people will start showing, slowly but surely. Of ya don't they won't. More fans... more money, more exposure, easier recruiting, bigger stadiums, better facilities, and as my old buddy Earl would say BLAH BLAH BLAH. A winner, season after season might have the possibility of changing the culture in Muncie.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 1, 2019 13:19:18 GMT -6
I try to stay out of threads discussing attendance because the bottomline to attendance is winning. Until Ball State decides that it wants to consistently win games, and win big games (against FBS opponents and perennial NCAA tourney participants), discussing why folks don't show up is a moot point.
Consistently winning solves a lot of issues.
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