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Post by williamtsherman on Feb 28, 2019 10:18:44 GMT -6
Definitely. We just reach into our huge, wealth-filled, Scrooge McDuck/Richie Rich style vault that we have in the basement of at Ad Building and throw a bunch of money at Whitford. That way we can increase his buyout and I can stop losing sleep over the fear of an ACC program stealing him away.
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Post by david75bsu on Feb 28, 2019 10:25:14 GMT -6
An interesting thought: could a decent coach have developed Moses into a domanating center? Inquiring minds want to know. Probably not, but I will say this for Trey. There haven't been too many kids in recent memory who have done more to transform their body and work hard at their craft than him. If you follow his back story at all, he was a pudgy kid who didn't project as very athletic and few would have pegged as a D-1 player and if so, another "rescue dog" like we've typically recruited. Instead, Trey literally lost 40-50 pounds between his senior year in high school and a freshman year at Ball State and made himself relevant. At times, he has been dominant which has made all of us long to see that consistently. But, truth be told there's a very big, soft heart under his 6-9 frame, which is not a bad thing. He's had a very nice career at Ball State and will graduate as a top 4 all-time rebounder, second all-time in blocks, top 25 in scoring and will be the all-time leader in games played in BSU history. Not bad for a nice guy. Great assessment of a quality person and good basketball player for the Cards. Glad we have this good person representing Ball State University.
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Post by 00hmh on Feb 28, 2019 13:43:53 GMT -6
Definitely. We just reach into our huge, wealth-filled, Scrooge McDuck/Richie Rich style vault that we have in the basement of at Ad Building and throw a bunch of money at Whitford. That way we can increase his buyout and I can stop losing sleep over the fear of an ACC program stealing him away.
If you are going to extend, that would be a good idea.
I sense some reluctance on the board to get behind that idea.
So, let's hope his middling salary will be enough to hire the star coach everyone wants.
Then I'll still be thinking we should pay more. Of all the many cheap great coaches supposedly out there we should pay them more than they want.
After all the rising star will soon be gone after our brilliant coaching selection process has identified him. All the other AD's will be saying, "Damn, how'd we overlook him even though we would have paid him more, he went to BSU for pennies. "
OK, OK, I know he'll love it here and want to stay for years on that cheap salary but eventually he will leave and I just can't be sure we'll be able to get two great cheap coaches in a row. I guess we have a chance since maybe our even cheaper budget for staff will mean our great new coach brings in a staff full of genius assistants, and one will love having a raise and getting to be a head coach. We did manage to that once like 30 years ago. It's a lock we can do it again.
Forget the misses going cheap. Our lack of money is really our secret weapon. We have to be smarter.
Oh dear....
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Post by sweep on Feb 28, 2019 14:43:46 GMT -6
Definitely. We just reach into our huge, wealth-filled, Scrooge McDuck/Richie Rich style vault that we have in the basement of at Ad Building and throw a bunch of money at Whitford. That way we can increase his buyout and I can stop losing sleep over the fear of an ACC program stealing him away.
If you are going to extend, that would be a good idea.
I sense some reluctance on the board to get behind that idea.
So, let's hope his middling salary will be enough to hire the star coach everyone wants.
Then I'll still be thinking we should pay more. Of all the many cheap great coaches supposedly out there we should pay them more than they want.
After all the rising star will soon be gone after our brilliant coaching selection process has identified him. All the other AD's will be saying, "Damn, how'd we overlook him even though we would have paid him more, he went to BSU for pennies. "
OK, OK, I know he'll love it here and want to stay for years on that cheap salary but eventually he will leave and I just can't be sure we'll be able to get two great cheap coaches in a row. I guess we have a chance since maybe our even cheaper budget for staff will mean our great new coach brings in a staff full of genius assistants, and one will love having a raise and getting to be a head coach. We did manage to that once like 30 years ago. It's a lock we can do it again.
Forget the misses going cheap. Our lack of money is really our secret weapon. We have to be smarter.
Oh dear....
Of course 00dumbass used to spend time over on the Texas Tech board telling everyone what a great hire they made in Pat Knight.
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Post by williamtsherman on Feb 28, 2019 15:16:37 GMT -6
Definitely. We just reach into our huge, wealth-filled, Scrooge McDuck/Richie Rich style vault that we have in the basement of at Ad Building and throw a bunch of money at Whitford. That way we can increase his buyout and I can stop losing sleep over the fear of an ACC program stealing him away.
If you are going to extend, that would be a good idea.
I sense some reluctance on the board to get behind that idea.
So, let's hope his middling salary will be enough to hire the star coach everyone wants.
Then I'll still be thinking we should pay more. Of all the many cheap great coaches supposedly out there we should pay them more than they want.
After all the rising star will soon be gone after our brilliant coaching selection process has identified him. All the other AD's will be saying, "Damn, how'd we overlook him even though we would have paid him more, he went to BSU for pennies. "
OK, OK, I know he'll love it here and want to stay for years on that cheap salary but eventually he will leave and I just can't be sure we'll be able to get two great cheap coaches in a row. I guess we have a chance since maybe our even cheaper budget for staff will mean our great new coach brings in a staff full of genius assistants, and one will love having a raise and getting to be a head coach. We did manage to that once like 30 years ago. It's a lock we can do it again.
Forget the misses going cheap. Our lack of money is really our secret weapon. We have to be smarter.
Oh dear....
Do you have some sort of evidence that the MAC coaches brought in for higher initial salaries have more success? As certain as you are about throwing money at the problem, I assume you can back it up with some statistics.
Of course, you'll just ignore this. Just like you've ignored, several times, my question as to where the money will come from.
On the other hand, I've listed some examples where schools at our approximate level brought in high quality coaches without having to win an expensive bidding war against all the other mid-majors looking of for a coach.
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Post by CallingBS on Feb 28, 2019 15:21:55 GMT -6
Moses has not played well particularly since coming back and recently Persons lines the stat sheet late! Why we wait to press and turn up the intensity so late is beyond me! Was the moving screen call on Mallers the latest call you have ever seen? No, it actually wasn't. Bad call, yes, but not actually a late call. The ref was blowing his whistle and making the blocking foul motion, but nothing came out of his whistle. It was a strange sequence.
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Post by 00hmh on Feb 28, 2019 15:29:21 GMT -6
If you are going to extend, that would be a good idea.
I sense some reluctance on the board to get behind that idea.
So, let's hope his middling salary will be enough to hire the star coach everyone wants.
Of course 00dumbass used to spend time over on the Texas Tech board telling everyone what a great hire they made in Pat Knight. Not so much. I never really understood quite how Bob thought Pat was ready for a HC job especially at the B12 level.
You have to be a pretty good coach to succeed at TT in basketball.
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Post by thebsukid on Feb 28, 2019 15:46:19 GMT -6
Ok BS...accept your word...just seemed really late...no I understand.
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Post by 00hmh on Feb 28, 2019 16:12:38 GMT -6
Do you have some sort of evidence that the MAC coaches brought in for higher initial salaries have more success? As certain as you are about throwing money at the problem, I assume you can back it up with some statistics.
Of course, you'll just ignore this. Just like you've ignored, several times, my question as to where the money will come from.
On the other hand, I've listed some examples where schools at our approximate level brought in high quality coaches without having to win an expensive bidding war against all the other mid-majors looking of for a coach. This forum doesn't want middling success, it wants championships. If we want THAT level AND do not represent a school that is already successful, AND where so many people here think needs a complete rebuild, I say we better be willing to pay for success. Pretty hard to find examples of any substantial turnaround to a championship like that in recent MAC history. Certainly not typical of such hires.
Let's first look at the very successful schools who won a MAC championships with a new cheap coach. How many fit the bill? Buffalo found a rocket, yes. How many other cheap hires worked that well? How many cheap hires failed?
Look at the MAC schools who have hired a new coach and by any reasonable measure have been successful soon after any new hire. This is most often a school that was successful under the previous coach, and their relatively well paid coach moved up. Some of those schools may be able to hire reasonably cheap, and can get a good coach. They usually do not follow that path though. They hire a coach at close to what the very successful previous coach was making. Above what we pay...
Take that counterexample at Buffalo, when an assistant following a good hire which had become a successful program moves up to HC. That obviously has some advantages to both the program (which knows a lot more about the young coach) and the young coach who has a team more or less in place. Is that the typical experience with a cheap hire?
But, then compare Akron, Ohio, Kent, and other schools with championship records and ambition to continue. Who did they hire?
Look at all the recent hires (say 15 years) Look at the relatively successful schools in that period, and those NOT. The relatively unsuccessful schools almost always followed the BSU model, hire cheap and hope.
When you lack prior success, lack a good roster returning and the school isn't paying well, I really have not seen that as a good championship strategy. Looking at all the unsuccessful attempts to follow that path, are we really that much smarter selecting coaches, can we be? That is what you are betting on and it is bad bet.
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Post by sweep on Feb 28, 2019 16:20:49 GMT -6
Do you have some sort of evidence that the MAC coaches brought in for higher initial salaries have more success? As certain as you are about throwing money at the problem, I assume you can back it up with some statistics.
Of course, you'll just ignore this. Just like you've ignored, several times, my question as to where the money will come from.
Take that counterexample at Buffalo, when an assistant following a good hire which had become a successful program moves up to HC. That obviously has some advantages to both the program (which knows a lot more about the young coach) and the young coach who has a team more or less in place. Is that the typical experience with a cheap hire?
Hey dumbass, the example of Buffalo was Bobby Hurley being hired at the same salary as James Whitford. You are such a doofus.
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Post by CallingBS on Feb 28, 2019 17:37:54 GMT -6
Ok BS...accept your word...just seemed really late...no I understand. It was a really weird call, and the fact that his whistle malfunctioned made it even more weird. Mallers stuck his knee out a little, but that call killed us. I felt bad for Mallers and the team, as they were making a comeback. There's no guarantee we would have come all the way back and won, but still, what a bizarre call.
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Post by williamtsherman on Feb 28, 2019 18:10:00 GMT -6
Has BSU been hiring "cheap". Is that a fact? My impression is rather that BSU hires the typical sort of candidate that most mid-majors hire, from the same hiring pool and thus has to pay more than other schools pursuing the same candidates. Taylor and Whitford have extremely typical backgrounds for mid-major hires. I seem to remember everyone here being quite enthusiastic about their resumes.
Can you show that we paid less than other MAC schools for a new coach? Do you even know? Or are you just assuming you can assert that without anyone questioning it? Maybe you should demonstrate that BSU pays less for new coaches than other MAC schools and similarly situated mid-majors or, failing that, maybe you should STFU.
And speaking of successful MAC head coaches, you'd struggle to find better examples than Nate Oates and Keith Dambrot. Both were hired from an assistant position at their respective MAC schools. I'm guessing they were both fairly cheap hires. They were both brought to their schools initially from an HS position and probably cost pennies...relatively speaking. To counter, maybe you can name some expensive MAC hires, where the school out bid a bunch of competition, that had similar success?
You want to use the same stupid methods executed by incompetent people. If you have any other new ideas about the hiring process, you haven't enlightened us. It's money, money and more money. Spending more money with the same stupid methods seems perfectly idiotic to me. And, once again, where is that money coming from? Football revenues, maybe?
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Post by bsu0 on Mar 1, 2019 0:10:36 GMT -6
If BSU wants to hire a decent coach they need to ask the candidates not how much money they want or look at where they assisted but how they coach. What techniques they use...Shot selection, how to set a pick, what kind of defense does he like, etc. Do you get the pic? Not where he coached but HOW he coaches. I don't give a shit if coached at the Little Sisters of the Poor or Goshen College. He has to be able to coach. It looks like many of these former student managers know a few terms and a few names get someone to make a few phone calls and suddenly they are grad assistants. Next they get a job at the end of the bench counting TOs, next a MAC job. I am so tired of these roll the ball out, let the players create, four guys stand pickin their butts while one player hogs the ball and takes a bad shot. That is not coaching. That is cheer leading. Atta boy, we'll get 'em next time. Ya gotta hire a man who knows how to coach BASKETBALL. He has to be a teacher and has to run the show in the classroom. He can't be afraid of benching a snotty nose little 18 year old kid and let him sit until his feeble brain matures to the point that it lifts his ass off that bench and he does what the coach wants. Once hired he has to be able to go out and sign three legit Division I players per year (on average) in a basketball rich area of the midwest to include Illinois, Michigan, Ohio, and Indiana. Three players out of a four state area to come to a great school in the middle the conference where his parents could drive to a majority of the games. Three Players in a four state area. If we can't find a good man that can coach and sign THREE legit kids per year we should drop basketball and assemble a bowling team. I could write a book, but I won't. I hope this is long enough to get my ideas across to the block heads that have been hiring in the past...Like it will make a difference. See you all at the baseball diamond soon, basketball is over for the season.
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Post by ruffledfeathers on Mar 1, 2019 7:25:56 GMT -6
General, while you are correct that Dambrot was brought in from an assistant position at Akron to be head coach and was also a high school coach, you failed to mention he was also a former college coach in the MAC. Dambrot was coaching the Central Michigan Chippewas until the spring of 1993 when he was fired. CMU alum and assistant to Hunsaker Leonard Drake(RIP) was named head coach at Central.
So Dambrot had been a former college head coach in the MAC. Experience counts.
As for salary, like all things in life, you have more choices when you have money. That's why most people want lots of it.
Go Cards!
RF
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Post by williamtsherman on Mar 1, 2019 8:43:38 GMT -6
General, while you are correct that Dambrot was brought in from an assistant position at Akron to be head coach and was also a high school coach, you failed to mention he was also a former college coach in the MAC. Dambrot was coaching the Central Michigan Chippewas until the spring of 1993 when he was fired. CMU alum and assistant to Hunsaker Leonard Drake(RIP) was named head coach at Central. So Dambrot had been a former college head coach in the MAC. Experience counts. As for salary, like all things in life, you have more choices when you have money. That's why most people want lots of it. Go Cards! RF What is relevant is that the ridiculous CMU thing did NOT make Dambrot a hotter commodity with a higher price tag...quite the opposite. The point is that Akron did not get Dambrot by out-bidding everybody.
In fact, I'm still waiting for the list of successful MAC coaches that were acquired by their schools by out-bidding everyone else. Seems to me that if you're gong to solve a problem by throwing money at it, you would want to be pretty sure that has worked well in the past. Some people on this forum are so confident that BSU can spend it's way to a good coach that I'm sure they must have numerous examples and stats to back this up. Unfortunately they have chosen not to share these with us.
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