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Post by 00hmh on Mar 1, 2019 9:27:02 GMT -6
Take that counterexample at Buffalo, when an assistant following a good hire which had become a successful program moves up to HC. That obviously has some advantages to both the program (which knows a lot more about the young coach) and the young coach who has a team more or less in place. Is that the typical experience with a cheap hire?
the example of Buffalo was Bobby Hurley being hired at the same salary as James Whitford. This is the same argument. One school once succeeded. Therefore we should just do the same thing, we will have the same good fortune.
Hurley is an outlier, not the typical cheap MAC hire.
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Post by williamtsherman on Mar 1, 2019 9:56:08 GMT -6
Hurley was hired for less than Whitford, but...you know...BSU has hired "cheap" and Hurley is an "outlier".
But we are still waiting for those examples of MAC schools finding success by winning a bidding war with the competition for an expensive coach.
So, Hurley, Dambrot, Oates were hired without paying big. I might also add Brad Stevens as another example. Also, it says in the article below that Majerus was paid $61K by BSU in his 2nd season. Of course that was a different time, but I don't think that $61K was an example of spending big, even back then.
Seems like the examples are piling up for less expensive hires being successful. What have you got? Or are you just full of shit?
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Post by 00hmh on Mar 1, 2019 10:02:47 GMT -6
Has BSU been hiring "cheap". Is that a fact? My impression is rather that BSU hires the typical sort of candidate that most mid-majors hire, from the same hiring pool and thus has to pay more than other schools pursuing the same candidates. Taylor and Whitford have extremely typical backgrounds for mid-major hires. Perhaps typical is the operative word. I thought we wanted excellence and a quick turnaround from middling performance to a championship. Typical Mid major hires don't do that. The criticism of both coaches is just that, "typical" and "average" results, failure to win championships.
I differ with you that Taylor had very good credentials. He looked damned good compared to Ronnie is what I saw. And that we were able to hire a young black coach after the charges of racism. But. VERY few coaches were interested in the job.
Whitford was hired a higher salary relatively speaking and had a better resume in many ways, with a glaring lack of HC experience. Perhaps typical for an average MAC salary hire.
Is that what you want?
Can you show that we paid less than other MAC schools for a new coach? Less that the good programs that have had the most success in the last 10 years. Except for Hurley. But he is not a typical mid major hire either, an exceptionally good hire. And speaking of successful MAC head coaches, you'd struggle to find better examples than Nate Oates and Keith Dambrot. Both were hired from an assistant position at their respective MAC schools. I'm guessing they were both fairly cheap hires. They were both brought to their schools initially from an HS position and probably cost pennies...relatively speaking. To counter, maybe you can name some expensive MAC hires, where the school out bid a bunch of competition, that had similar success? Dambrot was nothing like Oates. I don't see how you lump them together. Dambrot was in a different era for coaching hires, and had ties to Akron that made him want the job. A pretty unusual case. Oates was the better example of a hidden gem. But he was taking over a successful program, and the school knew him.
Unique circumstances which no doubt made salary less of a factor. What are the characteristics of the BSU job that are similar and allow us to expect great candidates at a low salary.
I do not doubt that hiring a very good assistant coach at a school with a winning program can work well, and a way to get a good coach cheap, maybe less of a gamble. It is different than hiring outside, and although it can work, I do not think it is a favorite to work out that way.
But for the sake of argument, OK. Which former HS coach who is an assistant on our staff do you want?
(Oh, and let's wait until we have a winning team for that assistant to work with to put us in a similar situation to Buffalo.)
Spending more money with the same stupid methods seems perfectly idiotic to me. And, once again, where is that money coming from? Football revenues, maybe? I agree it will take some support from alumni and willingness of the administration to gamble by putting up the money. On the bright side, you don't need a lot more money to stand out among MAC schools.
But if we are not willing to make a commitment, I do not expect us to be successful. You aren't willing to say we can ask the Great Oz for courage, but are willing to say we can expect brains? C'mon Dorothy.
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Post by rmcalhoun on Mar 1, 2019 10:05:53 GMT -6
cliffs note version of the last 4 pages for me please
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Post by cardfan on Mar 1, 2019 10:09:29 GMT -6
cliffs note version of the last 4 pages for me please Don't even worry about it......
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Post by rmcalhoun on Mar 1, 2019 10:12:16 GMT -6
cliffs note version of the last 4 pages for me please Don't even worry about it...... Perfect
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Post by 00hmh on Mar 1, 2019 10:15:01 GMT -6
So, Hurley, Dambrot, Oates were hired without paying big. I might also add Brad Stevens as another example. Also, it says in the article below that Majerus was paid $61K by BSU in his 2nd season. Of course that was a different time, but I don't think that $61K was an example of spending big, even back then.
Seems like the examples are piling up for less expensive hires being successful. What have you got? Or are you just full of shit?
link The market for coaching is much different now. And the BSU job in the MAC was a better job than it is now too...
The best MAC programs over the last 10 years all have paid coaches near the top of the MAC. You expect champaign results on a beer budget. If you think Majerus was a typical assistant coach, and we can attract a similar coach now, you are just nuts. (The article understates the whole coaching package at both schools, but that 200K+ to go to Utah, not exactly a high major power, looked like a fortune back then shows how different the coaching market was. Compare to Hurley leaving the MAC).
At the time hiring Rick at the salary we did was pretty good for the MAC. Rick was an exceptional hire and your argument is that the best strategy to make such a hire is to start out with a handicap of offering "typical" and average MAC salary.
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Post by 00hmh on Mar 1, 2019 10:17:47 GMT -6
cliffs note version of the last 4 pages for me please General, I want championships, not average results. We can get lucky, let's do it. Others have. The odds favor us because we are so smart.
00, I don't think so, but if we offer a good salary we have a better chance. Better odds that way.
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Post by rmcalhoun on Mar 1, 2019 10:18:00 GMT -6
So, Hurley, Dambrot, Oates were hired without paying big. I might also add Brad Stevens as another example. Also, it says in the article below that Majerus was paid $61K by BSU in his 2nd season. Of course that was a different time, but I don't think that $61K was an example of spending big, even back then.
Seems like the examples are piling up for less expensive hires being successful. What have you got? Or are you just full of shit?
link The market for coaching is much different now. And the BSU job in the MAC was a better job than it is now too...
The best MAC programs over the last 10 years all have paid coaches near the top of the MAC. You expect champaign results on a beer budget. If you think Majerus was a typical assistant coach, and we can attract a similar coach now, you are just nuts. (The article understates the whole coaching package at both schools, but that 200K+ to go to Utah, not exactly a high major power, looked like a fortune back then shows how different the coaching market was. Compare to Hurley leaving the MAC).
At the time hiring Rick at the salary we did was pretty good for the MAC. Rick was an exceptional hire and your argument is that the best strategy to make such a hire is to start out with a handicap of offering "typical" and average MAC salary.
This is not cliffs notes
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Post by williamtsherman on Mar 1, 2019 10:18:16 GMT -6
All you need to know is that, despite being directly called out, he rambled on and on without producing any examples to counter the numerous examples I offer.
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Post by rmcalhoun on Mar 1, 2019 10:18:37 GMT -6
cliffs note version of the last 4 pages for me please General, I want championships, not average results. We can get lucky, let's do it. Others have. The odds favor us because we are so smart.
00, I don't think so, but if we offer a good salary we have a better chance. Better odds that way.
Perfect whats is halftime saying
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Post by JacksonStreetElite on Mar 1, 2019 10:23:22 GMT -6
General, I want championships, not average results. We can get lucky, let's do it. Others have. The odds favor us because we are so smart.
00, I don't think so, but if we offer a good salary we have a better chance. Better odds that way.
Perfect whats is halftime saying
Oh yeah, I can totally picture Sherman saying "the odds favor us because we are so smart."
That sounds EXACTLY like him.
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Post by 00hmh on Mar 1, 2019 10:23:39 GMT -6
General, I want championships, not average results. We can get lucky, let's do it. Others have. The odds favor us because we are so smart.
00, I don't think so, but if we offer a good salary we have a better chance. Better odds that way.
Perfect whats is halftime saying Besides name calling, and misdirection, not much. Although somewhere on the forum he has no doubt passed on taking a bet with kid.
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Post by rmcalhoun on Mar 1, 2019 10:29:21 GMT -6
Perfect whats is halftime saying Besides name calling, and misdirection, not much. Although somewhere on the forum he has no doubt passed on taking a bet with kid. Interesting
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Post by cardfan on Mar 1, 2019 11:30:25 GMT -6
Besides name calling, and misdirection, not much. Although somewhere on the forum he has no doubt passed on taking a bet with kid. Interesting In a nutshell, same as it ever was.
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