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Post by bsutrack on May 4, 2019 11:55:58 GMT -6
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Post by rmcalhoun on May 4, 2019 12:39:13 GMT -6
I doubt Whit is in any trouble but I guess that would depend on how far back they go. I am not naive enough to believe that if Miller was really doing the type of things he was accused of that his assistants would not at least know. Cheating happens at every major school and bending of the rules probably happens everywhere. Its just a matter of who gets caught
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Post by lmills72 on May 4, 2019 13:56:23 GMT -6
Or who the NCAA wants to catch ...
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Post by reevo on May 4, 2019 14:36:16 GMT -6
I doubt Whit is in any trouble but I guess that would depend on how far back they go. I am not naive enough to believe that if Miller was really doing the type of things he was accused of that his assistants would not at least know. Cheating happens at every major school and bending of the rules probably happens everywhere. Its just a matter of who gets caught Paying a player $10,000 a month is a tad bit more then bending the rules don’t you think? Considering what Hunsaker and BSU was punished for and the damage it caused our basketball program and a great coach, Arizona better get the toughest penalty that can be given. If proven true, Miller is done and there will be questions for those who worked for him including Whitford. |
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Post by rmcalhoun on May 4, 2019 14:54:16 GMT -6
No I thknk arizaona and miller cheated to an extreme level and should be punished to the fullest. I think every school BSU included bends the rules. Its all a part of the game
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Post by Deleted on May 4, 2019 15:08:52 GMT -6
I’ll bet Dakich will disagree because he ALWAYS ran a clean program.
That being said......if it were ONLY Arizona doing the “pay for play”, then no recruit would ever want to go to any other school....correct? It wasn’t like Miller was getting the best recruits every signing period.
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Post by 00hmh on May 4, 2019 16:01:36 GMT -6
That being said......if it were ONLY Arizona doing the “pay for play”, then no recruit would ever want to go to any other school....correct? It wasn’t like Miller was getting the best recruits every signing period. The worst thing is that while once in that age long past it was all about sports. Not so much about the big money. There were clean idealistic programs, a lot of them, a certain number of programs perhaps occasionally violators, mostly ashamed of it, and a relatively few were very dirty. Now with money driven big time entertainment entities, there is a danger it becomes "part of the game" at more programs and nearly everyone can find more excuse to "cheat" at the sport more often. Sadly it may now be true there are VERY few clean programs in some leagues or sports.
NCAA enforcement has proven to be fairly ineffective as this has happened, with an occasional big scandal being dealt with and a lot of effort on small potatoes and trivial compliance issues. Very rule bound, but poor rules designed for a different age in many areas. Now they have to first write better rules, and then be real police, develop more forensic and investigative mechanisms.
This is after all really a product of contract law in an organization which is fundamentally a legal monopoly operating behind closed doors all too often historically. .
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Post by williamtsherman on May 4, 2019 19:15:08 GMT -6
Hardly anyone is really talking about the real corruption that is going on that all comes through the shoe companies. They are funneling all sorts of money to players, parents, coaches, relatives, guardians, hangers-on and so forth through the club teams, and sometimes more directly. In return, the players are directed to the college programs the shoe companies own and sponsor, and the kids eventually endorse their shoes. Someone like coach K can keep his hands clean and have total deniability, but yet be the beneficiary of all that shoe company money being spread around. Duke basketball is fundamentally a marketing arm of Nike. The NCAA has absolutely no desire to bust anyone for this because of all the shoe money flowing to colleges. It's an utterly rotten system, and all these periodic "big scandels" are just more or less isolated cases where some coach or assistant is dumb or desperate enough to try something outside the main scam. "NCAA enforcement" is actually just a way to keep everyone in their assigned spot in the shoe company dictated pecking order.
It's all ultimately financed by dumbshit consumers (particularly young males) who are susceptible to the influence of the huge and omnipresent shoe company marketing onslaught. What percentage of Nike basketball shoe retail cost do you suppose goes to financing the marketing, endorsement, and player grooming costs, as opposed to going toward higher quality shoe materials and construction?
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Post by 00hmh on May 4, 2019 20:10:06 GMT -6
Hardly anyone is really talking about the real corruption that is going on that all comes through the shoe companies. They are funneling all sorts of money to players, parents, coaches, relatives, guardians, hangers-on and so forth through the club teams, and sometimes more directly. In return, the players are directed to the college programs the shoe companies own and sponsor, and the kids eventually endorse their shoes. Someone like coach K can keep his hands clean and have total deniability, but yet be the beneficiary of all that shoe company money being spread around. Duke basketball is fundamentally a marketing arm of Nike. The NCAA has absolutely no desire to bust anyone for this because of all the shoe money flowing to colleges. It's an utterly rotten system, and all these periodic "big scandels" are just more or less isolated cases where some coach or assistant is dumb or desperate enough to try something outside the main scam. "NCAA enforcement" is actually just a way to keep everyone in their assigned spot in the shoe company dictated pecking order. It's all ultimately financed by dumbshit consumers (particularly young males) who are susceptible to the influence of the huge and omnipresent shoe company marketing onslaught. What percentage of Nike basketball shoe retail cost do you suppose goes to financing the marketing, endorsement, and player grooming costs, as opposed to going toward higher quality shoe materials and construction? You're right, the shoe money is now big factor. TV and other revenue sources like this have wormed their way into control of college sports. It's not just the money by itself, it is a rotten structure where the big schools rule. And if they others did want to do something, the big schools have the threat to leave. Very hard to see the NCAA making the kind of changes that would really get to the root of the problem. But, of course there are people talking. That stink ultimately has led to this response to the wave of shoe scandal. But given the governamce structure higher ups seem unwilling, unlikely to act to really change the game. |
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Post by sweep on May 4, 2019 20:19:19 GMT -6
Hardly anyone is really talking about the real corruption that is going on that all comes through the shoe companies. They are funneling all sorts of money to players, parents, coaches, relatives, guardians, hangers-on and so forth through the club teams, and sometimes more directly. In return, the players are directed to the college programs the shoe companies own and sponsor, and the kids eventually endorse their shoes. Someone like coach K can keep his hands clean and have total deniability, but yet be the beneficiary of all that shoe company money being spread around. Duke basketball is fundamentally a marketing arm of Nike. The NCAA has absolutely no desire to bust anyone for this because of all the shoe money flowing to colleges. It's an utterly rotten system, and all these periodic "big scandels" are just more or less isolated cases where some coach or assistant is dumb or desperate enough to try something outside the main scam. "NCAA enforcement" is actually just a way to keep everyone in their assigned spot in the shoe company dictated pecking order. It's all ultimately financed by dumbshit consumers (particularly young males) who are susceptible to the influence of the huge and omnipresent shoe company marketing onslaught. What percentage of Nike basketball shoe retail cost do you suppose goes to financing the marketing, endorsement, and player grooming costs, as opposed to going toward higher quality shoe materials and construction? Very hard to see the NCAA making the kind of changes that would really get to the root of the problem. Exactly what is the overriding problem ? What changes would you make to remedy the situation ? |
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Post by 00hmh on May 4, 2019 21:37:33 GMT -6
There are lots of problems related to a complicated structure and bureaucracy in the NCAA. But, think about these two general problems in dealing with this issue. Power in the big schools and governance structure.
One problem is that the "haves" are interested in a different NCAA than the "have nots."
The NCAA is never going to easily regulate the big boys, who simply leave if that happens. Most of the corruption is at that level. Even to try to make small changes that impact pretty big money at those schools is risky, and the NCAA won't do it.
Second related problem, the "haves" over time by providing so much money, primarily through TV, have gained control to a greater degree than ever. They actually now control much of the process of government of the NCAA. So the system is stacked against changes most needed to start with.
Remember that the NCAA exists only because at the time of its creation major scandal existed with issues about injury and corruption in football. Only if the big schools start to suffer independently from NCAA action because of the scandal does any of this change.
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Post by sweep on May 5, 2019 5:48:46 GMT -6
One problem is that the "haves" are interested in a different NCAA than the "have nots." The NCAA is never going to easily regulate the big boys, who simply leave if that happens. Most of the corruption is at that level. Even to try to make small changes that impact pretty big money at those schools is risky, and the NCAA won't do it. Second related problem, the "haves" over time by providing so much money, primarily through TV, have gained control to a greater degree than ever. They actually now control much of the process of government of the NCAA. So the system is stacked against changes most needed to start with. Remember that the NCAA exists only because at the time of its creation major scandal existed with issues about injury and corruption in football. Only if the big schools start to suffer independently from NCAA action because of the scandal does any of this change. Thanks for a meandering melange that doesn't point out any specific causes or remedies. This sounds like a whacked Bernie Sanders dissertation on Capitalism. |
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Post by 00hmh on May 5, 2019 8:08:12 GMT -6
One problem is that the "haves" are interested in a different NCAA than the "have nots." The NCAA is never going to easily regulate the big boys, who simply leave if that happens. Most of the corruption is at that level. Even to try to make small changes that impact pretty big money at those schools is risky, and the NCAA won't do it. Thanks for a meandering melange that doesn't point out any specific causes or remedies. This sounds like a whacked Bernie Sanders dissertation on Capitalism. There is no meandering. And I notice you can't really disagree with anything I said. You obviously know very little about how the NCAA works.
Is it your Pollyannish idea that there is some specific meaningful change that can be discussed that can easily be realized?
I think I was pretty clear the big problem here is that ANY solution that tries to make the big programs change their evil ways, most of which would upset finances, can't be made.
You are the Bernie Sanders here and can talk all you want about specifics and make proposals they won't be enacted.
The one time the big programs will allow changes is if the scandal embarrasses them, hurts them so much that they decide to use the NCAA as cover and no doubt then only agree to a solution that is as toothless and difficult to police as what we now have.
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Post by sweep on May 5, 2019 8:32:27 GMT -6
Thanks for a meandering melange that doesn't point out any specific causes or remedies. This sounds like a whacked Bernie Sanders dissertation on Capitalism. And I notice you can't really disagree with anything I said.
That's because as usual you didn't provide enough specificity to either agree or disagree. "I was pretty clear the big problem here is that ANY solution that tries to make the big programs change their evil ways" Are you going to provide an example or just keep making declarative statements with no actual support. I love your comic book good vs. evil nonsense, it's right out of the leftist playbook. Please tell us all about the evilness of Tony Bennett and the UVA program. |
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Post by williamtsherman on May 5, 2019 9:24:02 GMT -6
I'm usually not one to laugh at knee injuries, but this was just too funny.  |
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