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UTEP
Dec 24, 2019 17:10:51 GMT -6
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Post by thebsukid on Dec 24, 2019 17:10:51 GMT -6
Contrary to what some believe, I think we have demonstrated we can compete inside with good teams like Washington!
Teague, and Hazen performed pretty well, however, when we went South with about 12 minutes or so to go losing Teague do to foul trouble, and before you say it, the 4th foul was a touch foul that changed a close game!
FYI, Mallers is tough and I wouldn’t be surprised if he goes against Portland!
I believe we will beat Portland by double figures but most importantly, hopefully we return to Muncie healthy and ready to beat two good back to back opponents to take an early MAC lead
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Post by 00hmh on Dec 24, 2019 18:05:56 GMT -6
I disagree with UTEP being labeled a low level MAC team. They are equal to the teams in the MAC West. The problem last night was to me their rebounding. I thought our freshman did a lot. Losing Mallers hurt & Walton is still not back 100%. Key to our season is improvement from the freshman. Will it happen? No, No. Didn't you read 00's post earlier. It's not that we couldn't rebound against UTEP. The problem was we can't shoot or defend. That exaggerated the statistical difference. There is a difference, but not the difference in the game if we hit the usual 3pfg%. Which was independent of the shooting. The rebounding stat is dependent on number of missed shots...
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UTEP
Dec 24, 2019 18:08:56 GMT -6
Post by 00hmh on Dec 24, 2019 18:08:56 GMT -6
I am surprised Thomas has not turned out to have a role, but did not expect the others to play much. All are players who have talent and during the rest of their career have a chance to be contributors. Hendricks and Kroft have some skills, but are after all freshmen. It would be a surprise if any were "usable" in more than a mop up role.
So you didn't expect Huggins to be able to find the floor in his third year in the program, on a team virtually devoid of interior players? Are you kidding me? Huggins can only play center, and in our current configuration that calls for a center who can move, handle the ball and score well not just inside.
I'd like to see him for defense and rebounding on the other end, but not if it kills the offense.
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Post by CallingBS on Dec 24, 2019 18:24:45 GMT -6
Contrary to what some believe, I think we have demonstrated we can compete inside with good teams like Washington! Teague, and Hazen performed pretty well, however, when we went South with about 12 minutes or so to go losing Teague do to foul trouble, and before you say it, the 4th foul was a touch foul that changed a close game! FYI, Mallers is tough and I wouldn’t be surprised if he goes against Portland! I believe we will beat Portland by double figures but most importantly, hopefully we return to Muncie healthy and ready to beat two good back to back opponents to take an early MAC lead IMHO, all 4 of Teague's fouls were utter garbage in the Washington game. I seriously don't think any of the 4 were legit at all. He has committed plenty of stupid fouls in his career, but it was frustrating watching him get those phantom calls when he was playing so well.
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UTEP
Dec 24, 2019 18:45:22 GMT -6
00hmh likes this
Post by david75bsu on Dec 24, 2019 18:45:22 GMT -6
I disagree with UTEP being labeled a low level MAC team. They are equal to the teams in the MAC West. The problem last night was to me their rebounding. I thought our freshman did a lot. Losing Mallers hurt & Walton is still not back 100%. Key to our season is improvement from the freshman. Will it happen? No, No. Didn't you read 00's post earlier. It's not that we couldn't rebound against UTEP. The problem was we can't shoot or defend. The threes did not drop but the defense was there. Look at the points from their top scorer who put up 33 the night before. A fee threes drop and we win the game. It’s called basketball.
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Post by lmills72 on Dec 24, 2019 20:45:26 GMT -6
Huggins can only play center, and in our current configuration that calls for a center who can move, handle the ball and score well not just inside. So you're saying Whitford has basically wasted 3 years of a scholarship — and likely 2 more unless Huggins sees the light and transfers — on a player who doesn't fit how he wants to play and likely will only ever see the floor in garbage time. I should say that normally would be a waste, but since we probably couldn't find anyone else to give the scholarship to we might as well give a kid a free education even if he can't play.
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Post by reevo on Dec 24, 2019 22:00:13 GMT -6
BS to those who think we have an inside game. UTEP could of and should of gone to the block on every possession. We had no answer for there big guys. I have no idea what game some of you were watching but they were throwing Teague and Hazen around like rag dolls. Once the bigs from UTEP caught the ball on the block, we were done. The lack of any inside talent has been the death of this program and why we have been shit for the last 18 years. You all go on believing in this crappy coach and crappy style of play. His 95-111 record sure looks like success.
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Post by realitycheck on Dec 24, 2019 22:27:33 GMT -6
BS to those who think we have an inside game. UTEP could of and should of gone to the block on every possession. We had no answer for there big guys. I have no idea what game some of you were watching but they were throwing Teague and Hazen around like rag dolls. Once the bigs from UTEP caught the ball on the block, we were done. The lack of any inside talent has been the death of this program and why we have been shit for the last 18 years. You all go on believing in this crappy coach and crappy style of play. His 95-111 record sure looks like success. The first six years you can’t count them Reevo. It legit takes at least ten years to build a program. It might be Al Browns fault.
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UTEP
Dec 24, 2019 23:49:11 GMT -6
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Post by thebsukid on Dec 24, 2019 23:49:11 GMT -6
Well, partially correct Reevo in my view; in fairness to your point UTEP significantly out rebounded us, but our best inside defender Mallers played only 6 minutes and as BS said Teague got some BS calls which limited his time. He still got 14 and 8!
And clearly we competed well inside against Washington for 30 minutes and Teague had 20 and 11! Washington beat us with the 3 ball!
I partially buy what your saying but to suggest Teague had no presence is I believe incorrect.
Your posts and Cardfans are legit but some people not u project venom and are really say nothing
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Post by reevo on Dec 25, 2019 0:07:00 GMT -6
Well, partially correct Reevo in my view; in fairness to your point UTEP significantly out rebounded us, but our best inside defender Mallers played only 6 minutes and as BS said Teague got some BS calls which limited his time. He still got 14 and 8! And clearly we competed well inside against Washington for 30 minutes and Teague had 20 and 11! Washington beat us with the 3 ball! I partially buy what your saying but to suggest Teague had no presence is I believe incorrect. Your posts and Cardfans are legit but some people not u project venom and are really say nothing My point is that Teague and Hazen are forced to play inside due to our poor recruiting. Neither are true post players and neither can guard guys that are stronger and more physical. We are not using these guys to their strengths. Why Whitford refuses to recruit a few physical guys is beyond me. It is apparent when ever we play teams that go through the post, we usually get our butts handed to us. Our kids look physically weak compared to UTEP and Washington.
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UTEP
Dec 25, 2019 7:14:45 GMT -6
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Post by 00hmh on Dec 25, 2019 7:14:45 GMT -6
reevo is right that we have a team that has one pretty good big man in Teague. But he's not a center. And we don't have the muscle at PF either.
When we play teams with good big guys who play well in the post we have that relative weakness and have to off set it elsewhere.
In this game we were outplayed in the paint as we might expect. Did not shoot well either. Yet still easily could have won. That's important to recognize.
We can beat better teams than UTEP if we shoot well.
Our weakness will be fatal in some games but nothing reevo says means UTEP is a low level team or that we are a terrible team. The chorus of negativity I see in the thread is a little overblown.
We could wish for a different team. Lament not being the top team with everything we want. That's life folks.
But we can be proud of players we have too and see their potential. This game was not a triumph but no disaster.
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Post by williamtsherman on Dec 25, 2019 8:20:18 GMT -6
We could wish for a different team. Lament not being the top team with everything we want. That's life folks. How does a program fall from consistent success to 20 years of failure? See the above. This should be engraved above every entrance to Worthen.
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UTEP
Dec 25, 2019 9:28:16 GMT -6
Post by 00hmh on Dec 25, 2019 9:28:16 GMT -6
We could wish for a different team. Lament not being the top team with everything we want. That's life folks. How does a program fall from consistent success to 20 years of failure? That answer is easy. At a time we were riding high had momentum we fire Hunsaker for dubious reasons. We then hire his assistant cheap, which worked out well. Except. It convinced a generation of leadership at the university we could always be lucky and do that. We then failed to retain a pretty successful coach after the good luck. I doubt Ray would have done any better than he had previously but he was obviously a better coach than his successor. Not as cheap though...
so not only did we lose Hunsaker who was an awfully good fit, but at a time we had some resources and could have leveraged high attendance we used basketball as a profit center instead of taking the next step up. Not once but on every occasion when that leverage existed.
Compare to success. Butler hired a cheap coach and prospered but they were subsequently willing to pay to try to retain and to hire good coaches, and build on success. We failed.
And then there was the catastrophe of hiring Ronnie cheap. What a PR coup said our leaders, what a great image on our Program Cover that year. We then hire the "not Ronnie" coach we probably had to hire. Not just to rebuild our demolished reputation but because nobody who could really recover on court was willing to fight that headwind and come at the salary we offered.
Besides all that college basketball has changed. No longer would BSU ever sign a Bonzi Wells or if they did enjoy him for 4 years. Coaching salaries over time have grown faster than mid majors can pay and resources are pinched. Attendance and gate in Muncie will never recover. TV for MAC games off setting that? See football.
You can rail on about the hiring Whitford, and it is true once again we hired a coach needing OJT. A terrible hire? Maybe so if you expect those glory days. I am the pessimist but I think unless we went for a really good coach, one we can't hire, the train was maybe out of the station before we hired either of our last two coaches to come close to past success. It is a steep uphill battle to regain that ground as resources dwindled.
In fact you are probably right that administration is now satisfied with getting us back into the middle of the pack, and delighted if we can get to the top 4 in the conference. That is actually probably good management given where we are. You can wish all you want, but until we are able and willing to make a commitment in a hire, it is what it is. I will support the team and coach because it's not them to blame for past lost glory. But because whether it is everything we want or not there is a lot there to like.
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Post by CallingBS on Dec 25, 2019 9:53:05 GMT -6
Let me remind everyone that we are 5-6 (I refuse to count Defiance) against a pretty ho-hum schedule...
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UTEP
Dec 25, 2019 10:54:20 GMT -6
Post by 00hmh on Dec 25, 2019 10:54:20 GMT -6
Let me remind everyone that we are 5-6 (I refuse to count Defiance) against a pretty ho-hum schedule... I agree here. Although Loyola played reasonably well, that game was at home, as well as NKU. I hate home court losses. Western the game where we laid an egg was really disappointing.
All the losses except Washington are disappointing in how little more we needed to win the games. Evansville figured to be a hard game to win on the road. That is mild comfort only. We have not won the toss up games, and need to do that in the MAC. Some were truly toss up, but 8-3 would be a decent showing. Not a good pre-conference showing.
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