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Post by lmills72 on Dec 27, 2019 9:06:57 GMT -6
Again I'm not underestimating anything; I don't determine who's capable of playing.
You say Thomas, Kroft and Hendriks can contribute. Whitford says they can't. Take it up with him.
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Post by JacksonStreetElite on Dec 27, 2019 9:45:06 GMT -6
OK, so now we're going to split hairs and require the use of two terms. Depth: The number of people on the bench eligible to play under NCAA rules. We have that type of "depth." Hell, I've still got eligibility. I would supply as much "depth" as half our bench. Effective depth: Having bench players actually capable to contributing positively to the team's success during a game. Based on who Whitford plays, we do not have "effective depth" especially among interior players.
Ooooohhhhhhhhhh. I always thought when we were talking about depth we were talking about the types of conversations they were having in the locker room.
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Post by cardfan on Dec 27, 2019 9:59:30 GMT -6
Been lamenting the lack of effective depth for several years. Butts on the bench does not = effective, contributing depth.
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Post by realitycheck on Dec 27, 2019 10:41:59 GMT -6
Is there a significant drop off in the level of our offense and defense when we substitute? The key word is significant. The answer is yes.
We have reasonable guard depth. El Amin, Coleman, Thompson, Walton, Bumbalough. Issue is two of the five are freshman and will be inconsistent. Thompson is not an offensive threat and Walton, even when healthy is a shooting liability, although he does rebound and can penetrate. El Amin is the most well-rounded and consistent of the group.
Our wing depth and reliability is shaky. Mallers, Hazen & Acree. The starter is great when he's hitting shots but otherwise he's invisible for the most part. Hazen has been forced to play in the paint because we have no front line depth capable of playing apparently (Huggins, Thomas & Hendriks). Acree is coming around but again is a freshman and will likely be hit or miss once we get into the MAC.
Then there's our frontcourt depth. I'm talking true front court, a 4 or 5. It's Teague. He's already fouled out 3 times and finished several other games with 4 fouls. Hazen is his back up and he's closer to a 3 than a 4. I've been told recruiting has consequences.
IMO, our "depth" is a myth. Heaven forbid we lose El Amin or Teague especially. Without his presence inside we would tank horribly. That speaks to our "depth".
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Post by 00hmh on Dec 27, 2019 11:00:02 GMT -6
Looks like the best way to use KJ is as more a forward on offense hitting the offensive board and taking advantage of mismatch on a switch to drive. If we play 3 guards that seems the route.
Whatever we do we have to get Ish and Teague good opportunities in half court and Bumbalough and Mallers have to punish sagging defense. I'd still like us to be the team that scores off turnovers and pushes the ball, but we need Thomas and KJ to give us the numbers and athleticism we need to do that better.
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Post by proctorp on Dec 27, 2019 11:14:32 GMT -6
Depth in this program is measured in centimetres.
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Post by rmcalhoun on Dec 27, 2019 12:22:02 GMT -6
Maybe had some not hyped Acree, Thomas, Kroft, Hendricks Bumbalough without ever seeing them play a game against real D1 competition some would not have thought our "great depth" was so great.
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Post by rmcalhoun on Dec 27, 2019 12:31:41 GMT -6
and maybe Im the only seeing this but it seems like Kj has turned it over,missed or had blocked more shots than he is made this year. Ive heard the he has small hands thing but if his vertical is 49 inches he ought to be going up with two hands and dunking the damn ball. Maybe the repeated ankle injuries have taken away some of his abilities. If thats the case the one thing that made him good is gone
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Post by CallingBS on Dec 27, 2019 14:37:20 GMT -6
We are essentially getting 12-15 meaningful PPG and 7 RBG out of our bench. Not good, but we're not getting much out of anybody not named El-Amin or Teague. Not only is the bench way overhyped, but the entire roster is as well. I realize intangibles can win games, but we lack size, toughness, ballhandling, post play, athleticism, etc. compared to nearly every opponent we've played. I like Acree's hustle, length, and athleticism, but one thing is clear to me - he is not a shooter. Recruiting has its consequences.
EVERY team has injuries. It's a part of athletics, especially at the college level where so many athletes' bodies are just worn out from way too much travel ball. Ours have been extremely mild to this point compared to a lot of teams. If you're suddenly struggling because of a middling injury or two, then your roster wasn't sound enough to handle it. Let's also not forget said coach recruited guys with known injuries and a history of injuries. This excuse will NEVER fly with me unless we lose our top 1-2 players, and even then it still merely exposes poor roster management. Recruiting has its consequences.
The MAC appears to be continuing its downward spiral into NCAA meaninglessness this year, but I still don't see us contending. History tells us it's a long shot. You'd think in 7 years, especially with our heritage, facilities, and recruiting geography, that Whit could emerge from the MAC trash can at least once. Recruiting has its consequences (along with a lack of player development, among other things).
Look, I'm not trying to just be a mean curmudgeon. I'm a realist. Recruiting has its consequences.
I'll still be at or watch every game and root this program on to my death, but man, it's frustrating.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 27, 2019 14:44:38 GMT -6
We are essentially getting 12-15 meaningful PPG and 7 RBG out of our bench. Not good, but we're not getting much out of anybody not named El-Amin or Teague. Not only is the bench way overhyped, but the entire roster is as well. I realize intangibles can win games, but we lack size, toughness, ballhandling, post play, athleticism, etc. compared to nearly every opponent we've played. I like Acree's hustle, length, and athleticism, but one thing is clear to me - he is not a shooter. Recruiting has its consequences.
EVERY team has injuries. It's a part of athletics, especially at the college level where so many athletes' bodies are just worn out from way too much travel ball. Ours have been extremely mild to this point compared to a lot of teams. If you're suddenly struggling because of a middling injury or two, then your roster wasn't sound enough to handle it. Let's also not forget said coach recruited guys with know injuries and a history of injuries. This excuse will NEVER fly with me unless we lose our top 1-2 players, and even then it still merely exposes poor roster management. Recruiting has its consequences. The MAC appears to be continuing its downward spiral into NCAA meaninglessness this year, but I still don't see us contending. History tells us it's a long shot. You'd think in 7 years, especially with our heritage, facilities, and recruiting geography, that Whit could emerge from the MAC trash can at least once. Recruiting has its consequences (along with a lack of player development, among other things). Look, I'm not trying to just be a mean curmudgeon. I'm a realist. Recruiting has its consequences.I'll still be at our watch every game and root this program on to my death, but man, it's frustrating. So, what do think about the staff’s recruiting efforts?
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Post by reevo on Dec 27, 2019 15:11:55 GMT -6
We are essentially getting 12-15 meaningful PPG and 7 RBG out of our bench. Not good, but we're not getting much out of anybody not named El-Amin or Teague. Not only is the bench way overhyped, but the entire roster is as well. I realize intangibles can win games, but we lack size, toughness, ballhandling, post play, athleticism, etc. compared to nearly every opponent we've played. I like Acree's hustle, length, and athleticism, but one thing is clear to me - he is not a shooter. Recruiting has its consequences.
EVERY team has injuries. It's a part of athletics, especially at the college level where so many athletes' bodies are just worn out from way too much travel ball. Ours have been extremely mild to this point compared to a lot of teams. If you're suddenly struggling because of a middling injury or two, then your roster wasn't sound enough to handle it. Let's also not forget said coach recruited guys with know injuries and a history of injuries. This excuse will NEVER fly with me unless we lose our top 1-2 players, and even then it still merely exposes poor roster management. Recruiting has its consequences. The MAC appears to be continuing its downward spiral into NCAA meaninglessness this year, but I still don't see us contending. History tells us it's a long shot. You'd think in 7 years, especially with our heritage, facilities, and recruiting geography, that Whit could emerge from the MAC trash can at least once. Recruiting has its consequences (along with a lack of player development, among other things). Look, I'm not trying to just be a mean curmudgeon. I'm a realist. Recruiting has its consequences.I'll still be at our watch every game and root this program on to my death, but man, it's frustrating. Great post. Straight to the point. We have all become stagnated with our lack of success that any hint of a recruit that can hit the side of a barn, we think we are the second coming of Kentucky. Bottom line is we have not recruited to need, we have recruited to the number of scholarships to be filled. His recruiting has been honestly a train wreck. He is not recruiting to his philosophy, see lack of quality shooters and point guard play. I honestly have become so irritated, unenthused that I very rarely watch a game straight through anymore. It’s a damn shame that a school located in basketball heaven, surrounded by the most fertile recruiting grounds in the country, cannot challenge for a legit tournament birth every couple of years. It makes me sick knowing we have fans on this board who are willing to accept mediocrity as a standard for this program. None of you, would run your business this way and nor should we accept a state operated school to operate half ass just to say you are doing it. Either do it the best way possible or get rid of the damn athletic program and concentrate on academics. This mediocre way of thinking and everything is alright crap needs to go take a flying **ck. It’s not alright and it’s not acceptable!
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Post by williamtsherman on Dec 27, 2019 15:40:52 GMT -6
I'm afraid I'm going to have to step in here and call out reevo and BS for being completely out of step with the driving philosophy of the BSU basketball program, which has been encapsulated as follows:
"We could wish for a different team. Lament not being the top team with everything we want. That's life folks."
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Post by thebsukid on Dec 27, 2019 16:06:00 GMT -6
Well, we disagree, I’d say bringing KJ, Acree, Hazen , and Josh off the bench is deeper than in many seasons gone by! Many of you not all of you say no!
Let’s come back to this thread later in the season, if we don’t compete for a Championship I’ll be the first to admit it.
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Post by realitycheck on Dec 27, 2019 16:31:34 GMT -6
I say I believe my own eyes. Walton is only coming off the bench because he's been hurt and is still hobbled. I'm guessing he will replace Bumb or Coleman when healthy but maybe Whitford will keep him on the bench so we at least have something offensively to bring in. Thompson is a gamer but he's a walk-on with a career scoring average of 2.6. Hazen has scored in double digits two times in 29 career games and averages 5 a game. Acree is a red-shirt freshman so who knows. This doesn't scream championship contending depth to me.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 27, 2019 16:58:53 GMT -6
I’ve been giving our mediocrity a lot of thought and am developing a mechanism to enhance mid major fan experience for the revenue sports.
It will involve weighted averages to weekly post-game input such as: “yeah, but we beat the spread”, “the refs missed calls that cost us the game” “if we didn’t have those two guys injured” (not to be confused with “suspended players will help when they return”) “we just couldn’t score the ball” ”how much are we trending in a particular direction” “how well did we trust the process” ...and the wild card, “how many horses were we firing on”
I’m calling it Fantasy MACtion
This could potentially flip actual losses into Fantasy victories. All future coaching decisions could be judged against this criteria by the AD, BOT and President.
.....oh, never mind.
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