|
|
Post by williamtsherman on Sept 24, 2018 20:43:06 GMT -6
Interesting and sort of strange season so far. Not too sure about Luck (I notice Kid hasn't been referencing any ratings, rankings or anything else about him lately). I've heard a number of people speculating about an odd throwing motion and a possible lack of arm strength. That would be exactly the sort of thing I was worrying about.
Who would have thought that the Colts would have the #1 and #2 tackles-for-loss guys in the NFL after three weeks? (Hunt and Leonard) Not me.
I haven't managed to see hardly any of the games yet, so I don't really know what I think....although I still wish one of those interior O line picks would have went to a WR or OT.....much much MUCH more important positions. |
|
|
|
Post by rmcalhoun on Sept 24, 2018 21:14:49 GMT -6
No other place for me to vent to so I am hijacking this for a minute... Jesus my beloved steelers are playing like my beloved BSU cardinals... This football season sucks ass. You may now return to whatever it is you guys talk about in here
|
|
|
|
Post by williamtsherman on Sept 25, 2018 9:14:45 GMT -6
Below are Andrew Luck's yards per completion for every game of his career. You don't have to be a stats geek to see the significance.
I understand that the new offense is more of a short passing offense than before, but the colts are dead last in the nfl in yards per completion and are at a level that would have been dead last in any of the last 8 seasons (maybe more...that's as far back as I looked). So, it seems to me the colts are at such a low level as to be hindering their offensive output.
Is this because Luck's arm is not what it was? That would be highly concerning. If this is the case...will it ever get back to where it was?
Another possibility is that the tackles are so bad, it's necessary to get the ball out very quickly. Another possibility is that (outside of Hilton) they have nobody that can get open deep.
Probably it is some combination of all these factors. The last two factors bring up the issue of spending multiple high draft picks on interior offensive line. I knew that was bad idea. A competent organization should never have to do that.
|
|
|
|
Post by 00hmh on Sept 25, 2018 9:34:42 GMT -6
OTOH Sherm, they did just play the Super Bowl champs in a close game and should have beat them.
The multiple high interior line picks seem to be working well, this year's 1st pick a consensus good choice, and the real question is whether the quality of those picks trumped the positional gain you seem convinced is the only factor in the draft. I'd be more in your corner if there was a clear cut choice at tackle or a real stud wide receiver in either of the last two drafts where the Colts picked.
Is drafting journeyman tackles better? And WR draft choices are a risky prospect, too. The Colts in recent drafts were burnt going for these "positional" gains, both at tackle and WR, making a bit of a reach when no clear cut star was available.
|
|
|
|
Post by cardfan on Sept 25, 2018 9:49:07 GMT -6
Indications were deon Cain was going to be a player on the outside. His injury really hurt the wr Corps. He was a good draft pick at wr.
|
|
|
|
Post by 00hmh on Sept 25, 2018 10:21:23 GMT -6
Indications were deon Cain was going to be a player on the outside. His injury really hurt the wr Corps. He was a good draft pick at wr. Often you can draft several guys lower in the draft at WR or RB and come out with good players. I agree with Sherm that team needs, long term value of some positions are factors, but you get beyond the first 10 draft choices and those factors always end up getting guys who have some question mark.
Colts drafted Nelson who was an extraordinary player at his position. Also a need. A bit of a controversy to go so high for a G, but it was an excellent choice.
The other recent high picks the Colts have had before the last two years have involved trades and choice which they way too often bungled. But the flaw was not ignoring position, they in fact did draft for position and either had to reach to get somebody, or gambled, losing.
|
|
|
|
Post by williamtsherman on Sept 25, 2018 20:00:36 GMT -6
I think even the stupidest among us can see that getting mediocre to weak talent with high draft capital is a bad way to go. This applies to Werner, Richardson and Dorsett. Quite obviously the Colts are currently suffering greatly from the lack of any production whatsoever resulting from their number one picks in those years.
And now we have 6th overall pick Nelson who is (as far as I know) dealing effectively with the opponents' 3rd, 4th, or 5th best pass rushing threat in a congested part of the field. Well that's wonderful. But now who is dealing with the opponents' best pass rushers out in the open spaces at each end of the line? Who is creating separation and getting open for Luck downfield? I think now the lack of talent at more critical positions is becoming evident to some who originally liked the Nelson pick. Others are just going to stubbornly dig in their heels and double down on a stupid position, as is their habit. |
|
|
|
Post by 00hmh on Sept 25, 2018 20:18:43 GMT -6
And now we have 6th overall pick Nelson who is (as far as I know) dealing effectively with the opponents' 3rd, 4th, or 5th best pass rushing threat in a congested part of the field. An OG does more than pass block... |
|
|
|
Post by 00hmh on Sept 25, 2018 20:24:34 GMT -6
.... Werner, Richardson and Dorsett. Quite obviously the Colts are currently suffering greatly from the lack of any production whatsoever resulting from their number one picks in those years.
What job by the prior front office!
So why focus on Nelson who is after all a consensus good pick and is being graded highly among rookies as a successful draft pick, likely a pro bowl player soon in his career? There was no OT who would have been a better pick.
|
|
|
|
Post by TakeMeBackto2008 on Sept 25, 2018 21:26:08 GMT -6
I think Luck's arm strength will improve as the season progresses, but at the same time, it's entirely possible he never gets it back to where it was at the beginning of his career. He played roughly 20 games with a torn labrum. The labrum is made of cartilage, which doesn't grow back and can't be replaced. If he'd had the surgery right after tearing it, he likely would have recovered much sooner. Instead, he kept putting pressure on it and whittling it down even more, with Grigson and Pagano cracking the whip to try and save their worthless careers. This could just be what he is now, but I'm willing to wait a while longer and hope for the best.
|
|
|
|
Post by 00hmh on Sept 25, 2018 21:55:42 GMT -6
Really hard to tell.
They can't protect him long enough to allow the deep throws without risk to life and limb. So even if completely healthy we won't see much anyway.
Not until we have better protection AND a run game along with the misdirection short passes to prevent the all out blitzing that got him injured in the first place.
|
|
|
|
Post by williamtsherman on Sept 26, 2018 8:37:16 GMT -6
"There was no OT who would have been a better pick"
Damn. You must have watched a ton of tape to make that determination, so I guess I'll defer to your judgement then.
|
|
|
|
Post by williamtsherman on Sept 26, 2018 9:28:33 GMT -6
Just to show the contrast, starting in 1996, the colts drafted consecutively:
M Harrison t glenn p manning e james r morris r wayne d freeney d clark
The following year the colts had no first round pick, but took Bob Sanders in the 2nd round.
Only Rob Morris wasn't a All Pro at an impact position, and Polian was picking 28th at that point. Only Manning and Edge were top ten picks. This is how you build a core to win a super bowl and dominate your division for many years.
Then since Luck in 2012, we have:
b werner t Richardson trade p dorsett r Kelly m hooker q nelson
Only Hooker still has a chance to be an hit at an impact position and I'm not so sure about him. The Colts might possibly have already blown the prime of Andrew Luck. |
|
|
|
Post by 00hmh on Sept 26, 2018 9:36:05 GMT -6
"There was no OT who would have been a better pick"
Damn. You must have watched a ton of tape to make that determination, so I guess I'll defer to your judgement then.
Good idea. But, it is not just my opinion.
Besides, this is opposed to your contrary opinion, supported by very few if any sources, none cited by you, that there surely was one.
I'll help you out. The next one picked was Mike McGlinchey from ND, considered by most a slight reach at #9, who certainly is a good player and is starting for the 49ers. But better than Nelson? I did not see much sentiment for picking McGlinchey over Nelson.
As for initial results. Both rated about the same by PFF so far. For what that is worth. Nelson apparently did not grade out very well by their rating system against the Eagles good line, in week 3, and McGlinchey had a good game against the Chargers. Nelson is stepping to a OL which wasn't very good, and has to play next to a different guy every week it seems due to injury, which both have to hurt his grading.
|
|
|
|
Post by williamtsherman on Sept 26, 2018 12:24:34 GMT -6
Not an apples to apples comparison though because it is much more important to have a good tackle than a good guard. It's like saying a highly rated heart surgeon and a highly rated janitor are equally valuable. Nelson is like most guards in that he plays there rather than tackle because he can't deal with quickness.
Plus you're missing that the colts could have picked up McGilchey, or one of the other first round tackles, PLUS picks for trading back.
Also, I'm thinking Calvin Ridley would have been a nice addition. |
|
