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Post by cardfan on Sept 23, 2018 20:07:47 GMT -6
Rob, you raise some valid questions. Well I gotta find something to do.. I am not watching replays of the last two and breaking those down because its always the same problems. Ive beat the same points to death outside of a slightly improved Defense to death. All the other shit is exactly the same. And really, it’s been the same since Lembo’s last season.
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Post by Bigfoot on Sept 23, 2018 20:13:25 GMT -6
I might be in the minority, but I don’t like the change your head coach every 3 years approach. I think we need to give Neu at least 1 more year to see what he can do with his recruits as juniors and seniors. Bring in someone new for special teams. BSU has only fired 1 head coach within 3 years in the last 30 seasons. Its not like BSU always unloads coaches quickly and have been guilty i.e. Bill Lynch of hanging on too long although Lynch had success early before the freefall. If there were tangible success stories of head coaches having strong tenures after winning 3 or 4 conference games in 3 full years, I would be a bit more open minded. I dont know many. Fleck of course is the ultimate bad yr 1 success story. Brady Hoke had several tough seasons prior to his success in 2008. The 2007 team you could just tell was going to be in a great position to win the next season a bunch of games. Can’t recall how I felt about the records and coaching prior to 2007 but sure glad we stayed with him!
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Post by bsu0 on Sept 23, 2018 20:21:11 GMT -6
There was PLENTY of talk about firing Brady Hoke before Nate Davis walked on campus.
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Post by rmcalhoun on Sept 23, 2018 20:21:47 GMT -6
And before someone says well if the D was better he would have more wins.. That is some what true but The MAC and MACtion/espn/tuesday/wed/thurs is and was all built on crazy offense. Defenses in the MAC have been bad for years some have been opportunistic but not many have been "good".. There is a list of MAC QB's that had a little bit of "it" are and were able to find ways to win the Majority of the shoot outs. Riley needs to find some "it"
MAC success equals QB play, a good wide out and RB.. A defense that makes a play that gives the offense another shot. If you can double up or get a couple good Skill position players its just icing.
Toledo gave up forty something points yesterday thats ok when they put up 60 on offense
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Post by bsutony on Sept 23, 2018 20:22:14 GMT -6
Its all about the Mac we will not win many games just is not going to happen. What can not happen is losing them in a horrible fashion if we are in the games with a shot thats alot better than last year and Neu probably keeps his job. Here is a deeper question winning in the MAC is about QB play. Riley is going to set some BSU records and 20 years from now people will look at stats and think Damn that guy was good.. It seems like most of stats are wothless filler when was the last time we said Wow... Was it Northwestern his freshman year? Say we suck all year do we use the new red shirt year and throw Paddock out there and see what happens. Some quarterbacks have stats but do not have "it" is Riley one of these guys. Neal is definitely not the problem. He was very accurate Saturday, even on the deep ball. Hall didn’t help him much on one of his deep shots in the first half. The Oline is the bigger concern. We were getting stuffed on runs up the middle and got called for holding on half of the offensive snaps. I don’t get the negativity towards Neal. We saw how terrible the team was last year when he missed games.
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Post by rmcalhoun on Sept 23, 2018 20:25:53 GMT -6
BSU has only fired 1 head coach within 3 years in the last 30 seasons. Its not like BSU always unloads coaches quickly and have been guilty i.e. Bill Lynch of hanging on too long although Lynch had success early before the freefall. If there were tangible success stories of head coaches having strong tenures after winning 3 or 4 conference games in 3 full years, I would be a bit more open minded. I dont know many. Fleck of course is the ultimate bad yr 1 success story. Brady Hoke had several tough seasons prior to his success in 2008. The 2007 team you could just tell was going to be in a great position to win the next season a bunch of games. Can’t recall how I felt about the records and coaching prior to 2007 but sure glad we stayed with him! Yes you could tell the 2007 team had turned the corner and was going to be good... Thats what we need to see happen with this current team. If thats going to happen Id bet it would happen next year.
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Post by rmcalhoun on Sept 23, 2018 20:29:09 GMT -6
Its all about the Mac we will not win many games just is not going to happen. What can not happen is losing them in a horrible fashion if we are in the games with a shot thats alot better than last year and Neu probably keeps his job. Here is a deeper question winning in the MAC is about QB play. Riley is going to set some BSU records and 20 years from now people will look at stats and think Damn that guy was good.. It seems like most of stats are wothless filler when was the last time we said Wow... Was it Northwestern his freshman year? Say we suck all year do we use the new red shirt year and throw Paddock out there and see what happens. Some quarterbacks have stats but do not have "it" is Riley one of these guys. Neal is definitely not the problem. He was very accurate Saturday, even on the deep ball. Hall didn’t help him much on one of his deep shots in the first half. The Oline is the bigger concern. We were getting stuffed on runs up the middle and got called for holding on half of the offensive snaps. I don’t get the negativity towards Neal. We saw how terrible the team was last year when he missed games. Man you miss my point. Riley has always been accurate on intermediate stuff. Riley has always put up decent numbers. Riley has always looked the part.. Riley has not always equaled wins. Im not sure that Riley really is the problem but after three years of similar outcomes he is a common denominator in the equation.
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Post by 00hmh on Sept 23, 2018 20:29:39 GMT -6
Well I gotta find something to do.. I am not watching replays of the last two and breaking those down because its always the same problems. Ive beat the same points to death outside of a slightly improved Defense to death. All the other shit is exactly the same. And really, it’s been the same since Lembo’s last season. Not quite. I see why you say that. Lack of depth, lack of play makers, lack of physically aggressive talent across the board do look similar, results similar. Offensive scheme seems similar. We fail to do or are unable to do some of the same things.
But.
Isn't inexperience a bigger factor now? Where we are out manned and have players failing to make plays, the players are more likely to be younger players with upside not upperclassmen who never had much.
And these weaknesses seem to me to be exacerbated by injury, especially with the critical offensive line. Especially last year was a nightmare of injuries.
Lembo's teams lacked play makers and had players playing over their head but where some of the current players are performing similarly it's a little easier to be optimistic.
Since freshmen take about 2 years to be what they are going to be, next year we start to see that. Right now they have shown flashes of swagger and enthusiasm that was not there for Lembo's last year(s). That is different at the least.
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Post by bsutony on Sept 23, 2018 20:32:22 GMT -6
Neal is definitely not the problem. He was very accurate Saturday, even on the deep ball. Hall didn’t help him much on one of his deep shots in the first half. The Oline is the bigger concern. We were getting stuffed on runs up the middle and got called for holding on half of the offensive snaps. I don’t get the negativity towards Neal. We saw how terrible the team was last year when he missed games. Man you miss my point. Riley has always been accurate on intermediate stuff. Riley has always put up decent numbers. Riley has always looked the part.. Riley has not always equaled wins. Im not sure that Riley really is the problem but after three years of similar outcomes he is a common denominator in the equation. Maybe, but I would be shocked if this roster had a better option.
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Post by rgmillikan on Sept 23, 2018 20:32:23 GMT -6
BSU has only fired 1 head coach within 3 years in the last 30 seasons. Its not like BSU always unloads coaches quickly and have been guilty i.e. Bill Lynch of hanging on too long although Lynch had success early before the freefall. If there were tangible success stories of head coaches having strong tenures after winning 3 or 4 conference games in 3 full years, I would be a bit more open minded. I dont know many. Fleck of course is the ultimate bad yr 1 success story. Brady Hoke had several tough seasons prior to his success in 2008. The 2007 team you could just tell was going to be in a great position to win the next season a bunch of games. Can’t recall how I felt about the records and coaching prior to 2007 but sure glad we stayed with him! In Hokes 3rd year Ball State went 4-7/4-4 in the MAC, and 3 nonconference losses were all against top 30 teams in Iowa, Auburn, and BC. Not a contending team but there was serious progress from his 2nd yr. They at least passed MAC bottom feeder status.
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Post by rmcalhoun on Sept 23, 2018 20:33:52 GMT -6
Its all about the Mac we will not win many games just is not going to happen. What can not happen is losing them in a horrible fashion if we are in the games with a shot thats alot better than last year and Neu probably keeps his job. Here is a deeper question winning in the MAC is about QB play. Riley is going to set some BSU records and 20 years from now people will look at stats and think Damn that guy was good.. It seems like most of stats are wothless filler when was the last time we said Wow... Was it Northwestern his freshman year? Say we suck all year do we use the new red shirt year and throw Paddock out there and see what happens. Some quarterbacks have stats but do not have "it" is Riley one of these guys. Neal is definitely not the problem. He was very accurate Saturday, even on the deep ball. Hall didn’t help him much on one of his deep shots in the first half. The Oline is the bigger concern. We were getting stuffed on runs up the middle and got called for holding on half of the offensive snaps. I don’t get the negativity towards Neal. We saw how terrible the team was last year when he missed games. We did see horrible outcomes but we also saw PLitt make numerous long throws down the field and hit them. Riley gives us the best chance to win games right now there is no question about that. He is much better than the other QB's.. My question stands if we are out of contention do we take advantage of the redshirt Rule and throw Paddock out there and see what he has
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Post by bsutony on Sept 23, 2018 20:36:22 GMT -6
Neal is definitely not the problem. He was very accurate Saturday, even on the deep ball. Hall didn’t help him much on one of his deep shots in the first half. The Oline is the bigger concern. We were getting stuffed on runs up the middle and got called for holding on half of the offensive snaps. I don’t get the negativity towards Neal. We saw how terrible the team was last year when he missed games. We did see horrible outcomes but we also saw PLitt make numerous long throws down the field and hit them. Riley gives us the best chance to win games right now there is no question about that. He is much better than the other QB's.. My question stands if we are out of contention do we take advantage of the redshirt Rule and throw Paddock out there and see what he has I wouldn’t mind giving some of the other guys a shot late in the year to see what they bring. That new rule changes everything.
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Post by rmcalhoun on Sept 23, 2018 20:36:30 GMT -6
And really, it’s been the same since Lembo’s last season. Not quite. I see why you say that. Lack of depth, lack of play makers, lack of physically aggressive talent across the board do look similar, results similar. Offensive scheme seems similar. We fail to do or are unable to do some of the same things.
But.
Isn't inexperience a bigger factor now? Where we are out manned and have players failing to make plays, the players are more likely to be younger players with upside not upperclassmen who never had much.
And these weaknesses seem to me to be exacerbated by injury, especially with the critical offensive line. Especially last year was a nightmare of injuries.
Lembo's teams lacked play makers and had players playing over their head but where some of the current players are performing similarly it's a little easier to be optimistic.
Since freshmen take about 2 years to be what they are going to be, next year we start to see that. Right now they have shown flashes of swagger and enthusiasm that was not there for Lembo's last year(s). That is different at the least. Yes youth is a huge part of thats why ive said 1000 times lets see these kids as Juniors.
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Post by rmcalhoun on Sept 23, 2018 20:49:44 GMT -6
We are A Kent State Loss away from losing also ran status. Lose it and we are at the bottom not near the bottom. We will be swimming in the shit with CMU. EU has passed us Akron has passed us.. Wait for it Buffalo is really good, Toledo is always good, WMU is still decent, NIU we can not beat... Ohio better than us etc etc
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Post by rmcalhoun on Sept 23, 2018 20:59:57 GMT -6
As far as trying out other QB's the only one even think about doing it with is Paddock.. Hughes you can not play long term unless you plan on changing the offense. His skill set does not work with the current set up. He is all run pass option. We can do some of that but we would need to do it all the time. PLitt is Plitt he is and will always be a back up. He can come in and give you a couple games but no one wants him out there all the time. Paddock by all reports is going to be our next starter. You do not have to change a thing for him. Im not saying he is better than Riley nor am I saying he should be playing. All I am wondering is why not throw him out there if we are done.
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