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Post by realitycheck on Feb 13, 2019 12:12:25 GMT -6
The excuses now precede the action.
Excuse? That is reality. You expect something different?
When we were full strength we were the second best team in the MAC this year. With two good players out we weren't as good. Duh.
Once players rehab, getting everybody back and in synch may take a game or two.
The REALITY is we have no idea if we were the second best team in the MAC before Hazen & Ish went down. That's a huge stretch. I am glad to have them back and would agree that it will take at least a couple of games before they can be expected to mesh and be effective, however let's also be honest. Ish had a career game before he went down and expecting him to be that every game even before the injury is not realistic. He's like most of our subs. Mercurial and very capable of being neutralized by many opponents. Same for Hazen. I like his energy and enthusiasm but he's more likely to be a 6 point 4 board guy than not. Having all of our depth back is nothing but good for us right now. We will see how things develop. I am cautiously optimistic but fairly pessimistic because my faith in our coach and staff is low.
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Post by david75bsu on Feb 13, 2019 12:36:42 GMT -6
Based on one game, without ish and Hazen we were the second best team. Somehow in the games immediately following, with the same lineup that hammered Toledo, we became one of the worst while losing to meh teams. Explain away the sudden drop after Toledo, before we even had a chance to get tired from lack of depth. (A purportedly good starting unit that torched Toledo was still intact. And we still had Gunn then) Toledo we had everyone else play well. Other games we needed somebody to come off bench and just didn't have it.
Is the difference worth a couple of buckets? I think so. Some of these losses were last possession very close, so we weren't quite as bad as a losing streak indicated, but it's a difference going to the bench and having Ish instead of Nehls and being able to game plan to use the bench more.
The lack of depth meant playing Gunn out of position and when he wasn't effective. No choice. We knew Josh could contribute, so he stepped up. Now we have more. Huggins responded better than the naysayers would predict, and Nehls is getting more used to the MAC level competition. But, Hazen and Ish are better. To me that is clear.
Have to agree, had we had Hazen and Ish back we would probably had the extra buckets we needed to win several of our close losses. A healthy Hazen and Ish could not only add their points but help our starters be more rested and better meet their potential. If everyone returns and can stay healthy down the stretch we should be in good shape - beating Buffalo is a huge task for anyone in the MAC!
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Post by cardfan on Feb 13, 2019 12:44:30 GMT -6
We can have 20 guys on the roster and it won’t matter in the games where we turn it over 20 times, lack fundamentals and are generally disinterested/lack focus. You know, Like stinking vs emu after beating Toledo, the Ou game, etc. That has nothing to do with depth. And, in Mac play the better teams know us like the back of their hand and they know we won’t make many adjustments and won’t react well to getting punched in The face. And sometimes we act like we’ve never seen a team before. We fade every year in conference play because of that. If our shots aren’t falling we tend to let everything fall off. When the tough get going we just leave. And I’ll continue to think that until we prove otherwise. And I’m really hungry for us to finally prove otherwise, as is everyone else.
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Post by redbirdman on Feb 13, 2019 13:10:57 GMT -6
I think what I keep hearing is we really need a different coach & even with everyone back it is the same guy directing. I said two weeks ago I would be surprised to see us finish better than .500. Maybe Whit & the team come together we finish 20 (21 depends on tourney games played)-14 lose in MAC final. Are you guys going to give him another extension if he does that? I won't but that to me is as good a record as this team is likely to get.
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Post by 00hmh on Feb 13, 2019 13:14:54 GMT -6
We can have 20 guys on the roster and it won’t matter in the games where we turn it over 20 times, lack fundamentals and are generally disinterested/lack focus. You know, Like stinking vs emu after beating Toledo, the Ou game, etc. That has nothing to do with depth. If you have depth, and somebody is stinking it up, you can effectively substitute. Silly to say it has nothing to do with depth.
As for lack of focus and execution, depth can help because it is rare and entire team is actually unfocused.
One or two people out to lunch can destroy the team and create that impression. Especially on defense where the other team attacks your weak links. Substituting an energetic motivated substitute who wants PT can change a game.
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Post by 00hmh on Feb 13, 2019 13:19:17 GMT -6
Excuse? That is reality. You expect something different?
When we were full strength we were the second best team in the MAC this year. With two good players out we weren't as good. Duh.
Once players rehab, getting everybody back and in synch may take a game or two.
The REALITY is we have no idea if we were the second best team in the MAC before Hazen & Ish went down. That's a huge stretch. Oddly that is what everyone was saying before a losing streak. We stunk for the Ohio game, were excellent against Toledo. But forget both. Forget what our resident experts like reevo, our uniformed fans, and others say. It was ALSO what power ratings showed and there was quite a bit of evidence for it.
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Post by cardfan on Feb 13, 2019 13:20:31 GMT -6
Whit doesn’t use the bench to motivate enough as it is with a full roster. So I don’t buy that.
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Post by sweep on Feb 13, 2019 13:49:47 GMT -6
I said with the NIU game that it was a turnaround special with two in a row now and depth back, I'm simply suggesting that the odds are favoring a Cards run right now....how we come out of this 3 game stretch is huge....2-1 is okay but 3-0 and 7-7 would put us in decent shape with 4 games to go...I'm still suggesting a run to the MAC Finals... It's an absolute we aren't going to the NIT, which was your low bar for the season, so when are you writing the letter asking for a coaching change.
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Post by sweep on Feb 13, 2019 13:51:56 GMT -6
Based on one game, without ish and Hazen we were the second best team. Somehow in the games immediately following, with the same lineup that hammered Toledo, we became one of the worst while losing to meh teams. Explain away the sudden drop after Toledo, before we even had a chance to get tired from lack of depth. (A purportedly good starting unit that torched Toledo was still intact. And we still had Gunn then)
The lack of depth meant playing Gunn out of position and when he wasn't effective.
What position has he been effective ?
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Post by sweep on Feb 13, 2019 13:53:49 GMT -6
Toledo we had everyone else play well. Other games we needed somebody to come off bench and just didn't have it.
Is the difference worth a couple of buckets? I think so. Some of these losses were last possession very close, so we weren't quite as bad as a losing streak indicated, but it's a difference going to the bench and having Ish instead of Nehls and being able to game plan to use the bench more.
The lack of depth meant playing Gunn out of position and when he wasn't effective. No choice. We knew Josh could contribute, so he stepped up. Now we have more. Huggins responded better than the naysayers would predict, and Nehls is getting more used to the MAC level competition. But, Hazen and Ish are better. To me that is clear.
Have to agree, had we had Hazen and Ish back we would probably had the extra buckets we needed to win several of our close losses. A healthy Hazen and Ish could not only add their points but help our starters be more rested and better meet their potential. If everyone returns and can stay healthy down the stretch we should be in good shape - beating Buffalo is a huge task for anyone in the MAC! Oh please Ish can't even handle the position he was recruited to play. He isn't a difference maker.
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Post by sweep on Feb 13, 2019 13:56:08 GMT -6
We can have 20 guys on the roster and it won’t matter in the games where we turn it over 20 times, lack fundamentals and are generally disinterested/lack focus. You know, Like stinking vs emu after beating Toledo, the Ou game, etc. That has nothing to do with depth. If you have depth, and somebody is stinking it up, you can effectively substitute. Silly to say it has nothing to do with depth.
Yeah right, subbing Ish for Thompson is really going to take us to that next level.
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Post by sweep on Feb 13, 2019 14:00:10 GMT -6
The REALITY is we have no idea if we were the second best team in the MAC before Hazen & Ish went down. That's a huge stretch. Oddly that is what everyone was saying before a losing streak.
Really "everyone", so in your mind a predicted 12-6 record was a two seed.
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Post by sweep on Feb 13, 2019 14:02:48 GMT -6
The REALITY is we have no idea if we were the second best team in the MAC before Hazen & Ish went down. That's a huge stretch. Oddly that is what everyone was saying before a losing streak. We stunk for the Ohio game, were excellent against Toledo. But forget both. Forget what our resident experts like reevo, our uniformed fans, and others say. It was ALSO what power ratings showed and there was quite a bit of evidence for it.
Hey moron, the power ratings were largely based on our SOS component. I am so sorry math is difficult for you. Maybe Ball State offers some kind of remedial coursework.
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Post by thebsukid on Feb 13, 2019 14:19:40 GMT -6
I won't argue if we can make the run or not, but fact is we were playing significantly better before we lost our depth....Ish was playing better and Hazen we can agree I believe is better option than Gunn...I think we make a run...we'll see...
I think my prediction was we'd go to the MAC Final...
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Post by sweep on Feb 13, 2019 14:37:18 GMT -6
I won't argue if we can make the run or not, but fact is we were playing significantly better before we lost our depth....Ish was playing better and Hazen we can agree I believe is better option than Gunn...I think we make a run...we'll see... I think my prediction was we'd go to the MAC Final... "I believe Whit has brought the program back to respectability, however, no post season particularly in the last 2 seasons bothers even me. I’d say NIT minimum next year or time to make a change!!! Now, having said that I believe next years team will be very good and significantly improved! We will know a lot after Charleston." Read more: overthepylon.boards.net/thread/1935/level-concern-after-year-6?page=10#ixzz5fRgmWDvqYour very own words Kid..........................
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