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Post by williamtsherman on Apr 5, 2019 18:48:04 GMT -6
Are you saying that the decision to extend Whitford is a cautionary tale for ….bold, out of the box thinking? Am I reading that correctly? That would be an interesting position. And by "interesting" I mean asinine.
By the way, it's quite amusing to watch you attempt to slither out from under your support for the disastrous decision to extend Whitford. (You'll be having lots of opportunities to keep on slithering, by the way) Extending the coach, or not extending the coach is a pretty binary matter. What ever sort of equivocations you might bring up now, the inescapable fact is that you were FOR doing it, and it is the complete disaster that I said it was at the time. The program and the fanbase will be paying a heavy price for the stupidity of that thinking.
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Post by 00hmh on Apr 5, 2019 19:57:39 GMT -6
By the way, it's quite amusing to watch you attempt to slither out from under your support for the disastrous decision to extend Whitford. Glad to entertain as well as clarify the difference between supporting a move as defensible rather than clear cut correct. You now have my position more clear.
It was defensible at the time. But hardly clear cut and could go either way.
Suppose he had done nothing, his other choice basically. You could not fire the guy at that point after all. What would have then happened?
Slither down the slippery slope a bit further. I would not have been surprised at an extension a year later. Would the AD decide that it was time to change course then? Would that have been better?
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Post by 00hmh on Apr 5, 2019 20:03:26 GMT -6
Are you saying that the decision to extend Whitford is a cautionary tale for ….bold, out of the box thinking? My point is that either course had risks. You say don't extend.
But.
That might have made no difference, might have hurt since it could have had a negative effect on recruiting.
Standing pat would have been the easiest choice. The Colonel boldy made a controversial choice. Rolled the dice that it would help.
In a sense, you seem to be the champion of activism, risky and controversial moves. That is the essence of the Sherman Plan.
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Post by williamtsherman on Apr 6, 2019 4:32:08 GMT -6
Well by your logic, we had better extend Whitford again...right? I mean, we wouldn't want to hurt his recruiting. Shouldn't we make him coach for life?
And let's definitely avoid doing anything out of the ordinary pattern because (I think I have your reasoning right here) Sandy's decision to extend Whitford was "bold", so then it's a bad idea to ever do anything bold.
Or...wait...how about this: we just laugh at all your senseless blathering on BSU since you got the biggest issue exactly wrong and the program is currently screwed for multiple years thanks to the extension you supported.
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Post by 00hmh on Apr 6, 2019 5:51:51 GMT -6
I see no current need for an extension.
Perhaps after a MAC championship next year?
But I do certainly think we need to pay our coaches better than we do.
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Post by 00hmh on Apr 6, 2019 5:58:39 GMT -6
Oops, you are back to misunderstanding the position I have advocated. IF you extend or change coaches, don't penny pinch, pay well.
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Post by sweep on Apr 6, 2019 6:40:43 GMT -6
I see no current need for an extension. Strange because this time last season you were telling us Whitford is on the short list of coaches likely to receive a major new job opportunity. You were just glad he is still here. Nice to see it only took you six years to figure out he is a lousy coach.
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Post by purplecats on Apr 6, 2019 6:44:50 GMT -6
Reevo and Hoopsmith are both correct. Remember it was RF on the old board who always said "a fish rots from the head". Learned my lesson as you have to learn who the "head" is. I called for the firing of Bill Lynch early on in the 20 something losing streak. Wanted to start a pool for the date of that firing while attending a BSU-Army game at West Point. YesMan wouldn't allow it. Lynch was not a good coach, but I learned form a CVC board member his hands were tied in recruiting by the WAD. When living in IN I was much more informed of the goings on in athletics by friends who served on the CVC board. The rot was always higher than I thought. I now believe both Reevo and Hoopsmith are on the money. It is the entire BOT. Are these people still appointed by the IN legislature? If so, then they may be the the fish head. Whatever, I hold out little hope the Cards will ever excel in any of the men's sports. The Golden years in men's sports were the late 80's to mid nineties. Men's cross country was nationally ranked. That program no longer exits. Football won the MAC championship in 1989 and again in 1993 under Paul Sheudel. MAC championships in men's basketball in 1989, 1990, 1993, 1995. Number one in the nation ranked men's doubles team in the early 1990's, Men qualify for the NCAA individual diving championships, men's volleyball in the Final Four. Baseball was the only unsuccessful program I can remember from that era under Pat Quinn. It was a great time to be a Cardinal fan. But that was then. Times have changed, thanks to the WAD, Gora Budd and the BOT. Go Cards! RF I don't post much here preferring to read opinions but this is spot on. Andrea Seger kind of dismantled what had been built over the years whether it was having a pro female agenda or just not enough experience in the big chair. Sitting here this morning listening to Muffet McGraw and remembering the Women Only Coach Women thought as Curt Miller started owning the MAC and seeing my Twitter timeline showing support for the ND coach's assertions I decided to check and see what was going on here on the board. The U took a step back in that era and has never dug out IMO. I don't care what you are, male/female, black/white/brown/green/purple, old/young....just put this U and the product as your first priority. I just want the best human with no agenda driving the bus.
As far as extending, looking around the MAC I see the Buffalo AD extended with the ability to pay for the next coach as part of the deal while Fred Shaus' kid did not extend Philips and the basketball program is gutted over there with transfers and commits not coming. Not sure what road is the one to follow. Probably something in between.
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Post by 00hmh on Apr 6, 2019 8:16:45 GMT -6
I see no current need for an extension. Strange because this time last season you were telling us Whitford is on the short list of coaches likely to receive a major new job opportunity. You were just glad he is still here. Nice to see it only took you six years to figure out he is a lousy coach. I don't recall, but after all his current contract seems to guarantee enough security. And IF we were going to extend, I would argue for a salary increase, which we either cannot or thanks to the BSU Way will not pay. Oh darn.
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Post by sweep on Apr 6, 2019 8:20:16 GMT -6
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Post by 00hmh on Apr 6, 2019 8:32:02 GMT -6
Whatever, I hold out little hope the Cards will ever excel in any of the men's sports. The Golden years in men's sports were the late 80's to mid nineties. Men's cross country was nationally ranked. That program no longer exits. Football won the MAC championship in 1989 and again in 1993 under Paul Sheudel. MAC championships in men's basketball in 1989, 1990, 1993, 1995. Number one in the nation ranked men's doubles team in the early 1990's, Men qualify for the NCAA individual diving championships, men's volleyball in the Final Four. Baseball was the only unsuccessful program I can remember from that era under Pat Quinn. It was a great time to be a Cardinal fan. But that was then. Times have changed, thanks to the WAD, Gora Budd and the BOT. I decided to check and see what was going on here on the board. The U took a step back in that era and has never dug out IMO. I don't care what you are, male/female, black/white/brown/green/purple, old/young....just put this U and the product as your first priority. I just want the best human with no agenda driving the bus.
As far as extending, looking around the MAC I see the Buffalo AD extended with the ability to pay for the next coach as part of the deal while Fred Shaus' kid did not extend Philips and the basketball program is gutted over there with transfers and commits not coming. Not sure what road is the one to follow. Probably something in between.
Interesting perspective from a different voice. You have not lived day to day through the aftermath of a series of decisions leading to the current situation. A lot of frustration here at the results of the hapless management we had back where the glory days had created a great opportunity. We chose then to assume it was easy to be great, and cheap.
Things changed dramatically in college sports over a couple of decades while we stood pat with that strategy.
AD and administration point to pinched funding and demographic changes eroding the fan base. Some justification there. In fact, we may now never reach the heights then possible. But I am convinced we can come closer to breaking even in basketball by having a more expensive program where we pay more than we now do than we can by being low budget. We are simply killing the potential we still have if we don't make a commitment to upgrade quality.
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Post by cardfan on Apr 6, 2019 9:01:12 GMT -6
But, we continue to have lots of Indiana all stars.
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Post by sweep on Apr 6, 2019 9:28:07 GMT -6
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Post by 00hmh on Apr 6, 2019 10:29:46 GMT -6
Saw that story.
In your never ending quest to dis our recruits it looks like there may be a disappointment for you. Luke seems to be listed on the official site as "Invited - Unable to Attend"
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Post by cardfan on Apr 6, 2019 10:30:57 GMT -6
Maybe an oversight on the list?
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