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Post by lmills72 on Feb 29, 2020 11:37:05 GMT -6
I did not see you or anyone else jump in with any better response to an overstatement. Nor, did I see anyone even dare criticize the opposing army's general for his dismissal of her as a mediocre affirmative action hire.
Are you sure YOU are champion for the right cause here? While I do appreciate the part where you say cogent defense, it sure seems to me before this post you ran a risk of being the champion of groundless cheap shot, not just an objective commentator, in your critique of my opinion. I do enjoy watching you flame out, I'll admit to that. The General simply made a humorous post about the university's values statement as it regards the basketball program. It was a trifle not worthy of a response and would have died a quick death, but ... Because you can't let anyone comment without having your 2 cents, you decided to take great offense and elevate it to a full-blown argument, which you then sucked at. Congratulations.
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Post by 00hmh on Feb 29, 2020 13:02:07 GMT -6
Point taken.
I hate these mission, goal and value statements as much as anybody. Don't think the cheap shot on Beth Goetz was funny whatever the intent.
Would think he would hold himself to a higher standard in his zeal to see excellence.
And would think you'd be a bit harder on a poster who went off the mark as a champion of high standards for posting.
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Post by williamtsherman on Feb 29, 2020 14:06:58 GMT -6
It seems like if my post was so bad, you'd have a better counter, instead of flailing about so lamely.
Clearly, you're a fanboy and booster of Goetz. Her lack of decisive action where it counts doesn't bother you in the least, as you've shown repeatedly that mediocrity suits you just fine. Homes runs ARE the key metric here because BSU desperately needs a clean up hitter in the AD spot...but it seems we have something more like a clubhouse attendant.
If anyone wants to make a sensible pro-Goetz argument, it would be that we really don't know yet what she will do with the basketball coach situation. I have my suspicions, but maybe she has all sorts of sharp, shrewd and creative ideas about what makes a successful basketball coach and how to find and hire one....we will see.
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Post by lmills72 on Mar 1, 2020 14:11:38 GMT -6
Getting back to the original topic of this thread, anyone feeling a little Dayton envy this year.
Here's a team that finished one spot ahead of BSU in kenpoms 2018 rankings, somewhere in the 170s. Today the Flyers are a top 10 team with an all-American candidate in Obi Toppin.
So, what happened? First, some would say they got lucky and IU hired away their coach Archie Miller. Dayton replaced him with Anthony Grant, a Dayton grad with a pretty good college/pro coaching career. Grant was able to keep most or all of Miller's recruits from that year, including Toppin. Last year they moved up to the 60s-70s in the rankings and to the top 10 this year.
Toppin seems a little like Gordon Hayward at Butler. 6-2 as a high school junior, 6-5 as a senior, now 6-9. Played just one year of high school basketball, so probably under-recruited when combined with his size then.
At least that's the short story as I can decipher it. Probably a lot more involved.
Some would argue that, like Butler, Dayton doesn't waste a lot of money on football. I'd bet they're paying Grant a pretty penny although I couldn't find any current salary info.
Even if BSU fans don't have a little Dayton envy, I'd bet IU fans do.
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Post by rmcalhoun on Mar 1, 2020 15:32:18 GMT -6
Dayton is a great basketball town even when they suck they have great attendance and good tradition
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Post by CallingBS on Mar 1, 2020 16:04:14 GMT -6
Dayton is a great basketball town even when they suck they have great attendance and good tradition Agreed, but UD has a lot to do with that too. They have made improvements to UD Arena on more than one occasion in the last two decades, and they create an electric atmosphere in that place.
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Post by rmcalhoun on Mar 1, 2020 19:27:10 GMT -6
Dayton is a great basketball town even when they suck they have great attendance and good tradition Agreed, but UD has a lot to do with that too. They have made improvements to UD Arena on more than one occasion in the last two decades, and they create an electric atmosphere in that place. Absolutely Yes
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Post by journalismjoe76 on Mar 1, 2020 20:56:11 GMT -6
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Post by Hoopsmith on Mar 2, 2020 8:51:18 GMT -6
Getting back to the original topic of this thread, anyone feeling a little Dayton envy this year. Here's a team that finished one spot ahead of BSU in kenpoms 2018 rankings, somewhere in the 170s. Today the Flyers are a top 10 team with an all-American candidate in Obi Toppin. So, what happened? First, some would say they got lucky and IU hired away their coach Archie Miller. Dayton replaced him with Anthony Grant, a Dayton grad with a pretty good college/pro coaching career. Grant was able to keep most or all of Miller's recruits from that year, including Toppin. Last year they moved up to the 60s-70s in the rankings and to the top 10 this year. Toppin seems a little like Gordon Hayward at Butler. 6-2 as a high school junior, 6-5 as a senior, now 6-9. Played just one year of high school basketball, so probably under-recruited when combined with his size then. At least that's the short story as I can decipher it. Probably a lot more involved. Some would argue that, like Butler, Dayton doesn't waste a lot of money on football. I'd bet they're paying Grant a pretty penny although I couldn't find any current salary info. Even if BSU fans don't have a little Dayton envy, I'd bet IU fans do. I was at UD's game Friday night, and nearly every game I have seen there (including two against BSU) was a full- or nearly full house. Dayton has been night and day to BSU's program for decades. Even Xavier was once on more level footing with us. Hell, right now I'd settle for not being envious of Wright effing State, which has been a force in the Horizon League for a decade and just won the outright league title.
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Post by 00hmh on Mar 2, 2020 8:54:51 GMT -6
Dayton is a great basketball town even when they suck they have great attendance and good tradition Entirely different market. Dayton has not crashed and burned as Muncie did. They have made basketball their flagship program with a smaller investment in FB, too.
And the remark above about a coach who built the program is also pertinent. We'd maybe be there on that part if Hunsaker had been a long time coach.
Maybe if the powers to be had chosen to invest in another quality coach at some point.
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Post by Hoopsmith on Mar 2, 2020 9:05:06 GMT -6
Actually, the Dayton community has had some pretty rough sledding the last couple of decades when it comes to job losses and an impoverished inner city. It helps that they are surrounded by several prosperous suburbs, plus a healthy AF base and plentiful government jobs. One difference: the entire region embraces UD despite its being a small private school and supports its program win or lose. I lived in the region for a few years and witnessed none of the disdain that East Central Indiana seems to hold for BSU, outside of a small-but-mighty group of insiders who support the university.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 2, 2020 9:10:26 GMT -6
Actually, the Dayton community has had some pretty rough sledding the last couple of decades when it comes to job losses and an impoverished inner city. It helps that they are surrounded by several prosperous suburbs, plus a healthy AF base and plentiful government jobs. One difference: the entire region embraces UD despite its being a small private school and supports its program win or lose. I lived in the region for a few years and witnessed none of the disdain that East Central Indiana seems to hold for BSU, outside of a small-but-mighty group of insiders who support the university. You beat me to it. Worked in Dayton on and off for 20+ years. They have taken a pretty heavy economic hit in that time
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Post by Deleted on Mar 2, 2020 10:52:50 GMT -6
I envy the Western University Dolphins. They play in a gym the size of Frankfort High School's gym. They pack it every game and they contend. The coach might be a little shady, but as they say, "if you're not cheating, you're not trying."
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Post by realitycheck on Mar 2, 2020 11:18:46 GMT -6
Wow...I missed all of this epic battle yesterday! Very entertaining to say the least.
My two cents...I think this job is very challenging for any AD given the lack of top down commitment from the Pres and BOT. My guess is BG has been unpleasantly surprised by the lack of effort and apathy in the department when she took over, the limited resources devoted to strength and conditioning, the budget challenges compared to her previous stops and the long-time disconnect between the city and university as well as dysfunctional inter-department communication within BSU. She's made some good personnel moves within the department, been far more open and engaging with donors, alums and fans than any of her recent predecessors, and has solicited feedback and involvement from more stakeholders than in recent memory. The challenge for her, again is lack of support from the top down. The Pres and BOT are not going to do anything radically different than they have in the past regarding athletics. There's not going to be a pile of new cash or an increase in the budget. To the contrary, the budget will probably shrink if I had to guess. And, we recently told Papa John to take a hike to appease our Lib donor base and that side is more interested in investing in peace studies, diversity, inclusiveness and the like than athletics.
Sooooo, there you go. I too think Beth is going to be out of here to a much better gig in the next 2-3 years and wish her well when that time comes. In the meantime, I believe we will continue to flounder in men's bball because I don't think Whitford is half the leader as Brady is on the women's side. It's just a fact. Overall, we are going to win a few titles in some of the non-rev sports like softball or soccer or maybe even baseball under Rich who is also a great leader. I'm not sure on Neu. I like him but am not sold that he will take us to the next level. Hope I am wrong there.
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Post by cardfan on Mar 2, 2020 11:22:59 GMT -6
Wow...I missed all of this epic battle yesterday! Very entertaining to say the least. My two cents...I think this job is very challenging for any AD given the lack of top down commitment from the Pres and BOT. My guess is BG has been unpleasantly surprised by the lack of effort and apathy in the department when she took over, the limited resources devoted to strength and conditioning, the budget challenges compared to her previous stops and the long-time disconnect between the city and university as well as dysfunctional inter-department communication within BSU. She's made some good personnel moves within the department, been far more open and engaging with donors, alums and fans than any of her recent predecessors, and has solicited feedback and involvement from more stakeholders than in recent memory. The challenge for her, again is lack of support from the top down. The Pres and BOT are not going to do anything radically different than they have in the past regarding athletics. There's not going to be a pile of new cash or an increase in the budget. To the contrary, the budget will probably shrink if I had to guess. And, we recently told Papa John to take a hike to appease our Lib donor base and that side is more interested in investing in peace studies, diversity, inclusiveness and the like than athletics. Sooooo, there you go. I too think Beth is going to be out of here to a much better gig in the next 2-3 years and wish her well when that time comes. In the meantime, I believe we will continue to flounder in men's bball because I don't think Whitford is half the leader as Brady is on the women's side. It's just a fact. Overall, we are going to win a few titles in some of the non-rev sports like softball or soccer or maybe even baseball under Rich who is also a great leader. I'm not sure on Neu. I like him but am not sold that he will take us to the next level. Hope I am wrong there. YES.
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