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Bradley
Nov 11, 2015 8:58:56 GMT -6
Post by 00hmh on Nov 11, 2015 8:58:56 GMT -6
Bradley is probably pretty bad, with a 270 preseason ranking, but they are only the 8th worst team on our pre-conf schedule. Losing to them would be depressing, and say bad things about this years team, but it would not rule out a 12 to 14 win season. I have no idea about the accuracy of those preseason ratings, and we have discussed elsewhere how preseason hype is not all that meaningful. But, assuming fairly enough they are not a good team, still they are at home, we still have an untested team, they are trying to make a statement with a new coach, so with all that, I would not be surprised to see them have an advantage. I am going to try to avoid undue depression or undue elation, win or lose.
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Bradley
Nov 11, 2015 9:11:42 GMT -6
Post by 00hmh on Nov 11, 2015 9:11:42 GMT -6
I am hoping I eat my words and apologize to the board in February. I want BSU to win just like the rest of you, however I believe the fastest path is unfortunately going to be a coaching change. Fast path? That fast path to winning with a coaching change usually means the last coach had acquired the talent needed. If you think every new coach is going to be a Rick Majerus and pull a rabbit or two out the hat recruiting right away, that doesn't really doesn't happen very often. If you think this coach has had ample talent and mishandled it, I don't agree. If you say he could have done better, that's quite possibly true, but how much better? How much is 20-20 hindsight? I am not so sure a Hall of Fame coach could have won a lot more games. This will be the first year we have expectation of being competitive, and it remains to be seen if coach and team have both improve. You are in essence predicting failure in that pursuit but not offering much reason for it. Your opinion that we get such fast results easy by changing coaches seems to me speculative. We can see what happens this year, and know more about that.
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Bradley
Nov 11, 2015 9:14:46 GMT -6
Post by 00hmh on Nov 11, 2015 9:14:46 GMT -6
I am hoping I eat my words and apologize to the board in February. I want BSU to win just like the rest of you, however I believe the fastest path is unfortunately going to be a coaching change. Fast path? That fast path to winning with a coaching change usually means the last coach had acquired the talent needed. Sometimes it means the coaching had gone downhill over time and the coach lost control. (Not true here, he has corrected many of the complaints we had about the previous coach) So how will that fast turn around happen? If you think every new coach is going to be a Rick Majerus and pull a rabbit or two out the hat recruiting right away, that doesn't really doesn't happen very often. If you think this coach has had ample talent and mishandled it, I don't agree. If you say he could have done better, that's quite possibly true, but how much better? How much is 20-20 hindsight? I am not so sure a Hall of Fame coach could have won a lot more games. This will be the first year we have expectation of being competitive, the coach has worked hard to get to that point, and it remains to be seen if coach and team have both improved. You are in essence predicting failure in that pursuit but not offering much reason for it. Your opinion that we get such fast results easy by changing coaches seems to me speculative. We can see what happens this year, and know more about that.
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Bradley
Nov 11, 2015 10:18:39 GMT -6
Post by williamtsherman on Nov 11, 2015 10:18:39 GMT -6
The team will almost certainly be better, because the current standard is a 17-game losing streak.
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Bradley
Nov 11, 2015 10:37:07 GMT -6
Post by Deleted on Nov 11, 2015 10:37:07 GMT -6
" he has corrected many of the complaints we had about the previous coach"
I started laughing three minutes ago and I still haven't stopped.
Of course coming from the guy who predicted great things from Pat Knight at Texas Tech your comments on Whitford aren't surprising.
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Bradley
Nov 11, 2015 11:12:56 GMT -6
Post by 00hmh on Nov 11, 2015 11:12:56 GMT -6
" he has corrected many of the complaints we had about the previous coach" I started laughing three minutes ago and I still haven't stopped. Of course coming from the guy who predicted great things from Pat Knight at Texas Tech your comments on Whitford aren't surprising. The previous coach here was criticized for recruiting, for passive sideline demeanor, slow paced offense, failure to get effort from team in practice and games, and lack of player development. Whitford seems to be doing better on every count. That is no laughing matter. BTW, I was not too optimistic about Pat Knight at Tech. I have known Pat since he was a kid, and most people like Pat and wish him well, but he wasn't a B12 coach, and not many who are could even win there. I'm surprised you are not an admirer with his brusk and direct communication style! I did think he would probably do better at the bottom of the barrel school where he moved on from there. To be fair, that place has been a hard place for every coach who was ever there.
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Bradley
Nov 11, 2015 11:28:31 GMT -6
Post by 00hmh on Nov 11, 2015 11:28:31 GMT -6
The team will almost certainly be better, because the current standard is a 17-game losing streak. Kid is still taking bets if you think the team won't be much better this year. A chance to put some skin in the game. Back up your negative talk! I don't expect all that much but we're a lot better this year. It's downright silly to argue we don't have a lot of good young players and that these kids, freshmen, sophomores and juniors coached by Whitford, won't be even better next year. Heck, we might even reach your lofty expectations for our Program. I guess I understand that you probably will have to beat a strategic retreat from the negativity, then, so you better get your licks in while you can.
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Bradley
Nov 11, 2015 11:50:56 GMT -6
Post by Deleted on Nov 11, 2015 11:50:56 GMT -6
" he has corrected many of the complaints we had about the previous coach" I started laughing three minutes ago and I still haven't stopped. Of course coming from the guy who predicted great things from Pat Knight at Texas Tech your comments on Whitford aren't surprising. The previous coach here was criticized for recruiting, for passive sideline demeanor, slow paced offense, failure to get effort from team in practice and games, and lack of player development. Whitford seems to be doing better on every count. That is no laughing matter. BTW, I was not too optimistic about Pat Knight at Tech. I have known Pat since he was a kid, and most people like Pat and wish him well, but he wasn't a B12 coach, and not many who are could even win there. I'm surprised you are not an admirer with his brusk and direct communication style! I did think he would probably do better at the bottom of the barrel school where he moved on from there. To be fair, that place has been a hard place for every coach who was ever there. Oh please those dumb criticisms all have a specific genesis, and we all know what that is. Besides Whitford has hardly demonstrated any verifiable improvement in any of those areas, with the possible exception of recruiting, although the jury is still out on that one considering the 2016 class is pretty much a bust at this point. "most people like Pat and wish him well" Really, I have never heard anyone say one nice thing about him.
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Bradley
Nov 11, 2015 12:25:31 GMT -6
Post by bsu0 on Nov 11, 2015 12:25:31 GMT -6
Didn't Knight have some kind of player revolt at Lamar?
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Bradley
Nov 11, 2015 13:23:08 GMT -6
Post by Deleted on Nov 11, 2015 13:23:08 GMT -6
Didn't Knight have some kind of player revolt at Lamar? That's what happens when a really lousy coach does a classless thing and publicly throws his team under the bus. The best part is Knight telling a team member " you don't have a clue what it takes to win". The guy is s complete loser. www.youtube.com/watch?v=2XyZvOaeeqM&ab_channel=kkjeff100
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Bradley
Nov 11, 2015 20:21:03 GMT -6
Post by lmills72 on Nov 11, 2015 20:21:03 GMT -6
When it comes to this domination and experience, you don't want to count Persons (who is on the roster after all). So you DO want to include — in a discussion about the relative experience about this year's team — a player who WILL NOT step on the court this year? By that way of thinking you might as well include Mallers in your roster math, since they'll both be eligible at the same time. It's that type of thinking that makes it virtually impossible to take any of your arguments seriously.
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Bradley
Nov 11, 2015 20:53:20 GMT -6
Post by 00hmh on Nov 11, 2015 20:53:20 GMT -6
Oh please those dumb criticisms all have a specific genesis, and we all know what that is. Besides Whitford has hardly demonstrated any verifiable improvement in any of those areas, with the possible exception of recruiting, although the jury is still out on that one considering the 2016 class is pretty much a bust at this point. "most people like Pat and wish him well" Really, I have never heard anyone say one nice thing about him. Each of those dumb criticisms was made frequently on this board. Whatever "genesis" there was for that, Whitford is clearly making progress on all those counts. They are important. Pat is well enough liked and most who know him wish him well. Of course, I was talking about people who actually know him, I don't praise him for his public relations skill particularly. I have no idea how well you know him, or what you have heard. I am just relating what I have seen.
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Bradley
Nov 11, 2015 21:22:32 GMT -6
Post by 00hmh on Nov 11, 2015 21:22:32 GMT -6
When it comes to this domination and experience, you don't want to count Persons (who is on the roster after all). So you DO want to include — in a discussion about the relative experience about this year's team — a player who WILL NOT step on the court this year? By that way of thinking you might as well include Mallers in your roster math, since they'll both be eligible at the same time. It's that type of thinking that makes it virtually impossible to take any of your arguments seriously. Well the fact that we have a good underclassman player who will help the team next year and is on the roster and is part of the team does count for something in assessing what counts as dominant. I already said "young" might not have been exactly right. But. C'mon, I explained what I meant when I emphasized young players, you haven't explained at all what that dominance claim is all about. I like our junior and senior class in many ways and will expect those guys to play a big role but with much of that being newcomers Weber,Wells and Smith. Maybe the team is balanced this year? If I wasn't right to say young, isn't your claim of dominance overstating the case a little, too?
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Bradley
Nov 11, 2015 22:10:27 GMT -6
Post by 00hmh on Nov 11, 2015 22:10:27 GMT -6
Didn't Knight have some kind of player revolt at Lamar? Actually he mostly survived the press conference and that was not the player revolt, he went on and had his best year. But it hurt recruiting and he crashed and burned the next two years. He took the job hoping to prove he could be a good head coach, proved to be better as a top assistant than a head coach. We've seen a little of that here. There have been good coaches at Lamar, but mostly a long time ago, including Billy Tubbs in the 70's, Pat Foster in the 80's. Lamar a tough job. The last 30 years I am not sure they have had coach with long tenure or a winning record. Every coach in that period seems to manage one good year along the way, but then can't make it work, gets fired...not a prize coaching job. Tough enough place to win, not very good pay, good coaches probably don't take the job...and you probably have to be very good to win.
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Bradley
Nov 12, 2015 22:28:58 GMT -6
Post by 00hmh on Nov 12, 2015 22:28:58 GMT -6
2016 class is pretty much a bust at this point. Good recruit signsNot quite a bust. I'd say more like off to a good start.
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