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Post by rmcalhoun on Mar 8, 2020 12:01:42 GMT -6
I am proud and have been feeling great the last couple days because of the unexpected way we took care of business against NIU. We have not done that in quite a while and it feels good. It does not change anything though we beat NIU another mid pack MAC team. Just for you I did not use mediocre I can use middle of the pack and it says the same thing. So we agree we are a middle of the pack team in a middle of the pack conference. Where we seem to disagree is why and how long is middling acceptable..
I am proud of our kids because for the most part they are great, Im proud of us and other fans for still being here.. I am not willing to accept that all we can be is a middle of the pack team. We could be the one of the top teams in a middle of the pack conference its not that lofty of a goal.
Not sure about your football comparison because I have never said Im ok with our results. We are what we are in football just not very good. I have said numerous times that if Neu were to be let go I would be ok with it. I do think football has shown signs of improvement but if we can not get over the hump this year then Neu needs to go. The hump in Football is different than it is in Basketball Going 6-6 in football is not the same as going 15-15 basketaball.
Acceptable football is at least 6-6 most every year with an occasional 8-5 and an appearance in a Mac championship. Time frame to get to 6-6 Five to maybe 6 years. So its shit or get off the pot time for MIke.
Acceptable Basketball is 20 wins(thats not a big deal anymore) and semi regular appearances in at least the semis.. Be able to give yourself a shot at a championship.. Whit has achieved the record part but not the other. How many years has it been? Time frame for B ball should be 4 years as the rebuild is not near the task of it is in football.. Whits been at it for double that he has had ample time.
So if your ok with Middle Whit seems to be capable. Neu has not proven that he is even that yet.. How long is middle OK forever?
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Post by cardfan on Mar 8, 2020 12:17:25 GMT -6
Until we actually win something under Whitford many of us aren’t going to get overly excited about 11-7 (only a tie in the weak West) in the MAC and 18 wins overall and losses to teams like Western Illinois. On top of that we have no incoming recruits at this time. We have done, can do, and should do better. Getting excited because we’re a 3 seed and tied for a west division “championship” with the record we ended up with? It’s good but not great. Great will be winning the MAC tourney. I’m definitely happy we took care of business vs niu. It’s a refreshing change. I want to to be proud we’re Mac champs.
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Post by 00hmh on Mar 8, 2020 12:40:06 GMT -6
Agreed. Good not great.
No reason to get overly excited.
No reason to diminish where we are.
No reason not to want more.
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Post by rmcalhoun on Mar 8, 2020 13:02:00 GMT -6
Well we are a mid major in a mid major conference. Consistently around #12 of 30+ D1 conferences.
There are 6 conferences clearly major college with major college budget and and several more conferences with teams that have significantly bigger BB budgets compared to the MAC.
To me "mediocre" seems a bit perjorative, but if you just mean middle of the pack I suppose accurate, although, the conference is at the top of that second 1/3.
Perhaps you are influenced by our high status in FB and the glamour that comes as one of the giants in the same grouping as the major schools, but give us some credit. I agree MAC West doesn't mean much, and the nationally recognized and more memorable teams will be the ones that play 3 good games in Cleveland, get to the NCAA. But as an AD or alum of a good mid major school in a good mid major conference, there is reason to be proud of our teams that are almost always in your terms "mediocre."
Agree 100%. Being the best of the West, a three seed, and rated by most as the second best team in the conference is pretty damn good. We aren’t the Big 10, Big East, etc. and will never be - that’s life. If you want that shit you should have went to Purdue, TSIB, Butler, etc. Love my Cards, proud of the year! Would I like to see a Card team as capable as our Sweet Sixteen team - Damn right. Being realistic, in the MAC that will always be a rare bird for any MAC team. I want us to be competitive in the MAC, if we are I’m happy. This year we were/are competitive. David I love your passion for BSU but I do not see your point on this.. Why would conference affiliation play any part in any expectations of a programs success. We play in the MAC our expectations should be to near the top of the MAC on a consistent basis. We have failed to do that so far under Whit and he has been here a long time. If we burn out in the conference tournament again its just another ho hum average year. If we should make a run and get to the semis or finals I will be the first to say we had a good year..
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Post by thebsukid on Mar 8, 2020 13:29:43 GMT -6
I agree in part, but I think NIU was above middle of the pack?? They were in the upper third plus we beat them on their court!
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Post by rmcalhoun on Mar 8, 2020 13:34:55 GMT -6
I agree in part, but I think NIU was above middle of the pack?? They were in the upper third plus we beat them on their court! Thats fine and maybe your right but its one of a few times that has happened over the course of years. Everyone is happy with the win it was fun, great, unexpected what ever you want call it. If we build on it and win a couple in cleveland then this year would be IMO a great success
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Post by lmills72 on Mar 8, 2020 13:37:11 GMT -6
The arguments regarding the level of play in the conference, it seems to me, are mostly based on the level of the conference today vs. the days when we could legitimately question why the MAC wasn't getting 2 teams in the NCAA Tournament. It's all about men's basketball, not football, not women's basketball or baseball.
The MAC, at one time, WAS stronger and more competitive on a national level than it is now. Even if we only had one legitimately good team, that team was good enough that if it got upset in the MAC tournament that the committee had to make room for 2 MAC teams. This year? If Akron doesn't win the tournament, you think they've got a chance at the NCAA? No way.
We can talk about how the MAC is the 12th ranked conference in the land, and it is. But because of conference changes, that doesn't mean we are as strong as we used to be as a league.
Back in the days of when the MAC was a potential 2-bid league, conferences had 8-10 teams. Today they have 14-15 teams. There are 20+ more teams in the conferences ahead of us than there were back then. That's enough teams to make up 2-3 more conferences which, if we translate that to the good old days, means the MAC would be 14-15th in the nation.
Additionally, the consolidations have weakened conferences that are now below us. Think about Cincinnati, Marquette, Memphis, Butler, Dayton, Xavier. Those teams aren't the determining factors in lifting their current conferences above the MAC, but they sure as hell would lift Conference USA or the Horizon league above the MAC today.
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Post by lmills72 on Mar 8, 2020 13:46:06 GMT -6
I agree in part, but I think NIU was above middle of the pack?? They were in the upper third plus we beat them on their court! Thats fine and maybe your right but its one of a few times that has happened over the course of years. Everyone is happy with the win it was fun, great, unexpected what ever you want call it. If we build on it and win a couple in cleveland then this year would be IMO a great success Winning at NIU was great. And NIU, like us, is at the top of the MAC West. But, most rankings place NIU as the 7-8 best team in the conference. In fact, I think Kenpom and the NET rankings have them as the eighth best MAC team.
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Post by david75bsu on Mar 8, 2020 16:50:39 GMT -6
Agree 100%. Being the best of the West, a three seed, and rated by most as the second best team in the conference is pretty damn good. We aren’t the Big 10, Big East, etc. and will never be - that’s life. If you want that shit you should have went to Purdue, TSIB, Butler, etc. Love my Cards, proud of the year! Would I like to see a Card team as capable as our Sweet Sixteen team - Damn right. Being realistic, in the MAC that will always be a rare bird for any MAC team. I want us to be competitive in the MAC, if we are I’m happy. This year we were/are competitive. David I love your passion for BSU but I do not see your point on this.. Why would conference affiliation play any part in any expectations of a programs success. We play in the MAC our expectations should be to near the top of the MAC on a consistent basis. We have failed to do that so far under Whit and he has been here a long time. If we burn out in the conference tournament again its just another ho hum average year. If we should make a run and get to the semis or finals I will be the first to say we had a good year.. I do not have a problem with what you have said. Like you, I do feel we should be at the top of the MAC almost every year. I feel this year, with a 3 seed that puts us near the top of the MAC - most services rate us No. 2 team in the MAC. We do need to perform better in the Tournment than past years. Like you, I am concerned that we have Zero recruits so far this year. Thomas and Acree have come along well. How will our two bigs develop is a key. With our two holdouts this year we could be a good team next year. We only have two Scholarships and they need to be used wisely.
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Post by david75bsu on Mar 8, 2020 17:01:46 GMT -6
The arguments regarding the level of play in the conference, it seems to me, are mostly based on the level of the conference today vs. the days when we could legitimately question why the MAC wasn't getting 2 teams in the NCAA Tournament. It's all about men's basketball, not football, not women's basketball or baseball. The MAC, at one time, WAS stronger and more competitive on a national level than it is now. Even if we only had one legitimately good team, that team was good enough that if it got upset in the MAC tournament that the committee had to make room for 2 MAC teams. This year? If Akron doesn't win the tournament, you think they've got a chance at the NCAA? No way. We can talk about how the MAC is the 12th ranked conference in the land, and it is. But because of conference changes, that doesn't mean we are as strong as we used to be as a league. Back in the days of when the MAC was a potential 2-bid league, conferences had 8-10 teams. Today they have 14-15 teams. There are 20+ more teams in the conferences ahead of us than there were back then. That's enough teams to make up 2-3 more conferences which, if we translate that to the good old days, means the MAC would be 14-15th in the nation. Additionally, the consolidations have weakened conferences that are now below us. Think about Cincinnati, Marquette, Memphis, Butler, Dayton, Xavier. Those teams aren't the determining factors in lifting their current conferences above the MAC, but they sure as hell would lift Conference USA or the Horizon league above the MAC today. Last year Buffalo was Top 25 most of the year. There was talk that the MAC could possibly get two teams in, same as 2018. The MAC East was rated 9th nest and the MAC West was rated 11th best. This may not have been a superstar year for the MAC, but compared to twenty other conferences, we are the best. The top seven or eight conferences have sucked up any program that quite frankly would never give the MAC a second look. For me, I love the Cards and I really feel the MAC on a year-to-year basis is a very good fit for us.
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Post by 00hmh on Mar 8, 2020 17:05:38 GMT -6
Agree 100%. Being the best of the West, a three seed, and rated by most as the second best team in the conference is pretty damn good.... Would I like to see a Card team as capable as our Sweet Sixteen team - Damn right. Being realistic, in the MAC that will always be a rare bird for any MAC team. I want us to be competitive in the MAC, if we are I’m happy. This year we were/are competitive. Why would conference affiliation play any part in any expectations of a programs success. Mostly resources and how distributed in a conference. In a conference with even resources, fairly low, why expect any team to consistently be at the top. Harder if several teams are better funded. We all want consistent high quality. Should we have it as a goal, sure, rationally expect it? A different question.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 8, 2020 17:25:47 GMT -6
Other than dragging football down to borderline obscurity, my biggest issue with the inept leadership of the Mid American Conference is their stupid insistence on maintaining two divisions within the conference.
Of the 32 conferences, 1 conference holds on to this meaningless structure.
For crying out loud, other than UNI to Buffalo, a bus driver doesn’t even need a pee break to drive teams to games.
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Post by sag on Mar 8, 2020 17:58:39 GMT -6
Regarding recruits, the MAC has 3 or 4 other teams who have not signed a player early. I think only two teams (Ohio and Miami) have signed a player over 6'6". I'm not sure what to make of that.
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Post by lmills72 on Mar 8, 2020 19:03:02 GMT -6
Last year Buffalo was Top 25 most of the year. There was talk that the MAC could possibly get two teams in, same as 2018. The MAC East was rated 9th nest and the MAC West was rated 11th best. This may not have been a superstar year for the MAC, but compared to twenty other conferences, we are the best. The top seven or eight conferences have sucked up any program that quite frankly would never give the MAC a second look. For me, I love the Cards and I really feel the MAC on a year-to-year basis is a very good fit for us. Let's be truthful here, only a crazy person (or a MAC shill) would have been talking about the MAC getting two teams in the tournament the past two years. Toledo last year was probably the closest, but they were still ranked in the 60s and, because of the general weakness of the conference, a MAC team would have to be in the 40s to get an at-large bid. The year before that the next best team behind Buffalo was in the 100s, so let's not kid ourselves too much. In the good old days that I referenced in my earlier post, you might have had another team or two that could have been capable of legitimately challenging a team like the 2018 and '19 Buffalo teams in the conference tournament, but not these days. Buffalo basically cruised through the tournament both years. I think they won all but one game by double digits. As far as where the MAC is ranked now, I have no quarrel with your figures or your assertion that the MAC is a good fit for us. The argument has been that the MAC as a whole is not as competitive on the national level as it used to be. Because the conference configurations have changed so drastically between the two eras we wish to compare, conference rankings really don't address that argument.
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Post by 87grad on Mar 9, 2020 10:50:48 GMT -6
Getting 2 in from the MAC was based on Buffalo losing in the championship game and then getting an at-large bid. No one thought anyone other than them could get one.
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