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Post by cardfan on Jan 7, 2020 7:39:43 GMT -6
Listening to Butler coaches and players talk about “playing to the standard” and what it means to play to that Butler identity, and it’s totally ingrained, has me curious as to our identity. What is it? What is our standard? What is the Whitford program hallmark? (A positive one). What does he/his program stand for? When teams play us what do the say about us? I know how teams feel about Butler and how they play. The expectations at Butler are very clear.
What the hell are our (the coaches) expectations of our players and the program? What is the nebulous “right way” Whitford speaks of? What do we hang our hat on? What vision and expectation does he lay out for recruits and then carry through with during their careers?
I have no freaking idea. I don’t think whit does either. What is, “Ball State basketball?” What can we count on game to game and year to year? We know what what negatives we can count on but what are the consistent, rock solid foundations and standards of the program that every coach, player, and recruit knows, understands, and embraces?
Anyone?
I abhor Butler. Have since my youth. But I am jealous of what they have and what they are. They have a standard and they play to it and they are damn good. They play freaking hard. Always. And, they develop players in that program. Look at McDermott. Baldwin. Guys like that. Long list beyond those guys. They get better. Significantly and obviously better. Roles are well defined. We cannot say that despite Whitford’s reputation for player development. For the most part our guys flatline, with a few exceptions. We too often don’t play hard. I’m mean truly hard not fake hard. We have guys not playing to their role. Etc etc.
What and who are we? Serious question.
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Identity.
Jan 7, 2020 8:31:09 GMT -6
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Post by thebsukid on Jan 7, 2020 8:31:09 GMT -6
A serious question indeed: just maybe we all overlook an area that our staff stresses which is Defense!
Maybe we are all so focused on O that we kind of forget D!
This years team has held 5-6 teams to their lowest offensive output of the year!
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Post by Deleted on Jan 7, 2020 8:33:43 GMT -6
A serious question indeed: just maybe we all overlook an area that our staff stresses which is Defense! Maybe we are all so focused on O that we kind of forget D! This years team has held 5-6 teams to their lowest offensive output of the year! Defense wins championships, but you cannot win with D, if you don't hit hit FTs, and go cold from the field for long periods. Hopefully, BSU can fix the latter, while not hurting the former.
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Post by cardfan on Jan 7, 2020 8:42:07 GMT -6
But is it hard nosed and great every year? Is it just a good stretch and that’s it? (Not fair to count Defiance in there but we did) Can we count on our d when all else fails? Wtf happened vs Westen Ill.? That’s what I’m talking about. Losing to a western Illinois just should not and cannot happen. But something similar happens every year. And every year we fade. And every year we get nothing done in the MAC tourney. So is defense really our standard, our identity? Or is it just another flow to be followed by an ebb, which is what we’ve come to expect? Can we break out of that pattern this season?
Depth cannot be an excuse every single year.
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Post by rmcalhoun on Jan 7, 2020 10:55:08 GMT -6
Identity equals process trust me on that
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Post by frozenbaugh on Jan 7, 2020 11:08:14 GMT -6
Like I said before, our Identity is a bunch of players with the same basketball skills, at varying heights, thrown together to form a team. Therefore, none.
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Post by reevo on Jan 7, 2020 11:35:53 GMT -6
We have no identity. Hunsaker and Majerus brought this program the only tangible identity this program has ever known. Toughness and defense. There was a consistency from game to game, year to year. Everyone bought in. They recruited to their philosophy. I honestly believe Collier stole from us when we were really good and Butler was trying to find its way. The difference is that the University (Butler) bought in and hired coaches who would carry on the tradition, identity. Why they have taken off and we have sucked.
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Identity.
Jan 7, 2020 11:40:56 GMT -6
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Post by cardfan on Jan 7, 2020 11:40:56 GMT -6
Like I said before, our Identity is a bunch of players with the same basketball skills, at varying heights, thrown together to form a team. Therefore, none. That’s exactly how I see it.
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Identity.
Jan 7, 2020 11:41:11 GMT -6
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Post by cardfan on Jan 7, 2020 11:41:11 GMT -6
We have no identity. Hunsaker and Majerus brought this program the only tangible identity this program has ever known. Toughness and defense. There was a consistency from game to game, year to year. Everyone bought in. They recruited to their philosophy. I honestly believe Collier stole from us when we were really good and Butler was trying to find its way. The difference is that the University (Butler) bought in and hired coaches who would carry on the tradition, identity. Why they have taken off and we have sucked. Yes.
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Post by 00hmh on Jan 7, 2020 12:11:15 GMT -6
Butler did it right.
We fired Hunsaker and decided we could hire assistants and go low maintenance.
That hard nosed identity really decreased to some extent even as Ray's tenure progressed. He could recruit though!
He was disgruntled and frustrated at the support.
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Post by Hoopsmith on Jan 7, 2020 12:34:05 GMT -6
We have no identity. Hunsaker and Majerus brought this program the only tangible identity this program has ever known. Toughness and defense. There was a consistency from game to game, year to year. Everyone bought in. They recruited to their philosophy. I honestly believe Collier stole from us when we were really good and Butler was trying to find its way. The difference is that the University (Butler) bought in and hired coaches who would carry on the tradition, identity. Why they have taken off and we have sucked. Can't argue with any of this. Outside of *maybe* defense, there has been no consistent from year to year or coaching regime to regime. The toughness is no longer a hallmark as we're much more finesse under Taylor and Whitford. Some of that may owe to the way games are called in the MAC, but I can't really pinpoint it one thing outside of the kids we recruit and how they are taught.
As for Butler, they were barely scraping together a D1 existence at the time we were turning the corner. Collier elevated them and we had some good battles through the 90's, but they didn't seem to really take off until he had moved on as a coach. We just didn't realize the foundation he had laid in the program. Now we're off their schedule (the games really weren't competitive anymore unless they were in a down year), they're off to the Big East, perennially ranked and playing high-level games, and we're back to scraping by in a conference where basketball is an afterthought (to what, really?) Behold progress.
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Identity.
Jan 7, 2020 12:35:00 GMT -6
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Post by thebsukid on Jan 7, 2020 12:35:00 GMT -6
Cardfan, good question is can we keep it up this season? I’m hoping we can and I believe tonight’s game is the biggest so far this season
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Post by david75bsu on Jan 7, 2020 13:43:00 GMT -6
Butler did it right. We fired Hunsaker and decided we could hire assistants and go low maintenance. That hard nosed identity really decreased to some extent even as Ray's tenure progressed. He could recruit though! He was disgruntled and frustrated at the support. We had alums who hated his low scoring defense oriented teams! As for me, I loved Hunsaker’s teams and his love for Ball State. Don’t know what happened, but I feel he got screwed - as did Ball U in the years that followed.
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