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Post by comet on Feb 26, 2020 10:48:35 GMT -6
Coleman was pretty bad last night. Josh Thompson ended up taking a lot of Coleman’s minutes. Coleman was out of control and put the offense in some bad spots. Got taken off the dribble on D. In other words the same concerns we’ve had all season. He ended up with a seat next to Whitford for a bit. He certainly wasn't scoring early and he appeared to me like he was selfishly pushing himself to bring that to and end instead of doing what a point guard needs to do to get the ball to those that can.
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Post by cardfan on Feb 26, 2020 11:01:29 GMT -6
I want swagger, not stupid. We had too much stupid last night. But we still won.
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Coleman
Feb 26, 2020 11:26:06 GMT -6
Post by 00hmh on Feb 26, 2020 11:26:06 GMT -6
Stats are fine but you have to look at things somewhat in context. Our team is just a notch above mediocre in a very bad league. Don't make it worse than it is. We are in a middling conference, not a very bad one.
Not THAT bad a league? Combine the East and West and the MAC is about the 13th best out of 32 D1 conferences. Even the MAC West is an average(very) D1 conference.
You want to see a bad league look at the bottom 8 D1 conferences and the Sagarin for these conferences and their members:
26 AMERICA EAST = 67.32 67.77 ( 26) 9 67.56 ( 26) 27 OHIO VALLEY = 66.51 67.02 ( 27) 12 66.76 ( 27) 28 ATLANTIC SUN = 66.47 66.80 ( 28) 9 66.69 ( 28) 29 NORTHEAST = 65.59 65.39 ( 31) 11 65.46 ( 31) 30 BIG SOUTH = 65.47 65.95 ( 29) 11 65.79 ( 29) 31 SOUTHLAND = 65.36 65.55 ( 30) 13 65.47 ( 30) 32 SOUTHWESTERN = 61.98 61.69 ( 32) 10 61.80 ( 32) 33 MID-EASTERN = 61.59 61.06 ( 33) 11 61.21 ( 33)
These are bad conferences similar to the MAC in the high division of football.
In these bottom 8 of 32 conferences which get NCAA berths, Miami and WMU would be above average teams in those conferences. BSU would be a champ favored for an NCAA berth in most of them. Would be favored in all but 1 or 2 games. At worst favored in all but a handful of games playing a round robin schedule in the others.
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Post by redfeather on Feb 26, 2020 11:38:38 GMT -6
You are entitled to your view Reevo, but I'd say having two Freshman on our team that are making significant contributions should be credited as having recruited pretty well! And stats generally do mean something so we disagree again, and while we haven't won anything yet and may not we are in my view for the first time in a while in the hunt and may very well win the MAC West. And, while I'd agree in part with your interior recruiting position the fact is that Teague may very well be the MAC POTY, and Moses was better than average albeit not a star. Kid- here’s how I look at the recruiting. Could these two, Coleman and Bum, start or play on a upper tier MAC program their freshman year AND contribute at the same level they’re contributing currently for Ball State? I think not! It’s one thing to play and contribute to a team that isn’t all that good to start with which can falsely illuminate them as better talent versus a player who can contribute at a higher level than expectation on a team that already HAS good talent! In other words I can look like an NBA All Start when I play against the forth grade school team down the street but we all know that ain’t really the case is it!😉
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Coleman
Feb 26, 2020 11:57:51 GMT -6
Post by 00hmh on Feb 26, 2020 11:57:51 GMT -6
Coleman might play on a championship top tier team as a role player. More likely a reserve who might play starters minutes. Coleman is holding his own in most games against good players. See no reason to think he would not play on a very good team unless they had exceptional depth at guard and also at SF. his strength is a versatile game and his ability to be a jack of all trades.
Bumbalough would be a bench player more a spark plug type reserve with limited minutes. That is what I expected of him this year. His minutes are much expanded by the absence of KJ.
Both would potentially play on most "good but not great MAC teams" And that does mean such a team could easily include a top 4 or 5 team capable of contending for a championship in many years.
The caveat I have would be whether they would play on a very good team that had very good back court player depth, and which is not all that rare. We all seem to agree they might not play as many minutes as they do for us necessarily.
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Post by rusty on Feb 26, 2020 13:49:03 GMT -6
He’s most likely Freshman of the year! Get off his back!
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Post by cardfan on Feb 26, 2020 14:10:49 GMT -6
So it’s ok if he plays so poorly he gets yanked, and he is immune from criticism because he might be FOY? If anything he should expect to be held to a higher standard because he DOES have the ability to be good. You don’t become great without some harsh criticism along the way. He got a long talk on the bench from his coach so I guess whit should get off his back too.
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Post by rusty on Feb 26, 2020 15:42:41 GMT -6
You know I didn’t say that! Same guys are always complaining about the players the coaches. Every win it’s never how good the Cards played always how poor the other teams are. Is it ok if I don’t agree with your view. Same guys saying the same things all the time.
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Post by cardfan on Feb 26, 2020 15:57:46 GMT -6
Well I guess some of us just want more success than we’ve had got 20 years and want our team to play as well as it can to achieve that and when we see poor play that would get us beat by better teams, well, we kinda get upset about that. If our starting point guard, regardless of what awards he might win, plays so poorly that the coach has to get him off the floor, well, we’re going to discuss that too. On this board. Where discussion happens. Because that’s what happens on every team’s message/discussion board. Don’t know what to tell ya.
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Post by proctorp on Feb 26, 2020 16:04:21 GMT -6
Hey Rusty, when Whit can win at least two MAC tourney games in a row I might give this program a break.
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Coleman
Feb 26, 2020 16:10:25 GMT -6
Post by thebsukid on Feb 26, 2020 16:10:25 GMT -6
Its okay to be critical but to Rusty's point there are several that are critical regardless of whether we put the W in the column or not! Maybe some say that I'm to positive....well thats ok with me and if you want to pile on go ahead. I'd rather see the glass half full that half empty. I am more realistic than some give credit....I said we would go 11-7 in the conference before the season started! I too know what many of you projected...so who is overly positive or to negative...you can decide. I agree that Boogey needs to take care of the ball better, but why not emphasis on his positives at the same time? He could play for any team in the conference...start for some but play for anyone....thats a good recruit in the MAC. And, as has been said he likely finishes at least in the top 2 for Freshman of the Year.
And, Bum may ultimately be a bigger scorer of the ball than Boogey. We could finish anywhere between 10-8 and 12-6 in my view...which puts three of us at 11-7 closer to the pin than most. And, by the way, Reevo, thats without a true post player FYI.
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Post by realitycheck on Feb 26, 2020 17:09:39 GMT -6
All that is peachy, but the ultimate measure of our programs success, at least on the court, is how we fare in the MAC tourney and if we can qualify for the post season. The REAL post season.
The teams we all remember, the players & coaches we recall with most fondness are the ones who had championship mettle. Who surged through the new year and peaked in February and March and ultimately won the hardware or hung a REAL banner.
No one here is saying don't enjoy a win, or root for our team or dislike our players. I personally like virtually all of them. Great kids. I don't dislike our HC and his staff are excellent guys. BUT, in 7 years we've not had many championship moments and our coaching on the floor and recruiting of a balanced roster with legit post players and some kids with moxie has fallen short of the mark and my expectations. If you wanna celebrate mediocrity and feel good about being better than average, be my guest. I still hope for and demand more.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Feb 26, 2020 17:27:30 GMT -6
All that is peachy, but the ultimate measure of our programs success, at least on the court, is how we fare in the MAC tourney and if we can qualify for the post season. The REAL post season. The teams we all remember, the players & coaches we recall with most fondness are the ones who had championship mettle. Who surged through the new year and peaked in February and March and ultimately won the hardware or hung a REAL banner. No one here is saying don't enjoy a win, or root for our team or dislike our players. I personally like virtually all of them. Great kids. I don't dislike our HC and his staff are excellent guys. BUT, in 7 years we've not had many championship moments and our coaching on the floor and recruiting of a balanced roster with legit post players and some kids with moxie has fallen short of the mark and my expectations. If you wanna celebrate mediocrity and feel good about being better than average, be my guest. I still hope for and demand more. It’s been so long ago that I’m beginning to think that it all happened in a parallel universe and I only imagined that those events actually took place.......clouds begin to gather.....fog rolls in......Frog Baby statue was not purchased at Amazon......I just don’t know what’s real anymore.
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Coleman
Feb 26, 2020 17:45:15 GMT -6
Post by thebsukid on Feb 26, 2020 17:45:15 GMT -6
Fair comments Reality and Tarheel, I'm simply saying that some people are overly negative most of the time.
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Post by cardfan on Feb 26, 2020 18:09:05 GMT -6
I like this team. They can win the MAC tourney. The question is can they turn can into will/did.
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