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Post by 00hmh on Apr 12, 2020 9:19:06 GMT -6
For the record, I do look forward to seeing Windham and Jones in the Cardinal & White. Both are MAC-level players. The question remains can they and whomever else we give the last two scholarships to lead us to a title? Are they better than Taj or Ish because I don’t think we have a player over 6-8 on our roster who replaces Teague and Ish was far and away our best guard. Good points, though I don't look to clone those players exactly. Ish had developed into a decent defender but that can be replaced, it is his outside scoring we will miss. We may have replaced that with Jones and Windham conceivably and can play Acree or Coleman or somebody else as a defender, rather than worrying about combining those traits.
Same for Taj. Obviously if we got a scorer/rebounder/defender inside we would not change our offense a bit and be delighted. But assume we got just a rebounder and defender to replace Taj, I think we can redistribute scoring. If we got a scorer outside like the UIndy PF Lake then we might replace some of Teague with his bulk inside and and some of Ish with his shooting.
Most important overall to stay in the top 3 or 4 in the MAC is we get 3 MAC level players to replace Teague, Maller and Ish.
Ideally two must be able to play up front, ideally all should be athletic. Kroft was a an athletic wing player who eventually might have helped to partly replace Ish and Mallers, but we have Acree, Coleman, even Thomas who can play similar roles. Whether everybody likes it or not, the staff over two years has aimed for more athleticism rather than size and the greatest failure to me has been in not finding shooters. If we have shooters who can stretch the floor we will be able to score inside on drives by players like Acree, Jones, Windham et al.
The second failing in achieving this vision is a quicker ball handler and defender at guard. That job defending smaller guards may be going to Bumbalough more because he is too small to guard a wing guard, but with KJ eventually graduating we need a jet. If we can use this pack line idea better we might work around that failing.
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Post by lmills72 on Apr 12, 2020 9:41:55 GMT -6
I think too many people are writing off Bumbalough. I think he'll be harder to get out of the lineup than most people think, especially if his shooting becomes more consistent. I also think he has more than just his shooting to add offensively but that's likely all we'll really see in Whitford's offense.
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Post by cardfan on Apr 12, 2020 9:48:24 GMT -6
Bottom line, we can wish list and trumpet guys every year and proclaim greatness to come. And we end up with.. meh. Every time. Not even close to a championship. Best we can do is “tie” for the lead in a bad west division. And it doesn’t matter what we “might” have done this year or what mythical outcome kenpom might predict. We could just as easily lost in the first game in Cleveland.
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Post by david75bsu on Apr 12, 2020 10:02:31 GMT -6
I think too many people are writing off Bumbalough. I think he'll be harder to get out of the lineup than most people think, especially if his shooting becomes more consistent. I also think he has more than just his shooting to add offensively but that's likely all we'll really see in Whitford's offense. He is a tough nosed player who I think will all makes us proud his a Cardinal before he graduates.
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Post by david75bsu on Apr 12, 2020 10:05:34 GMT -6
Bottom line, we can wish list and trumpet guys every year and proclaim greatness to come. And we end up with.. meh. Every time. Not even close to a championship. Best we can do is “tie” for the lead in a bad west division. And it doesn’t matter what we “might” have done this year or what mythical outcome kenpom might predict. We could just as easily lost in the first game in Cleveland. It must be my chosen profession, but I feel the Cards were peeking at the right time. The bench was making great strides and I feel a Championship was in the Cards. Could I be wrong, possible. But I will always give the Cards the benefit of the doubt.
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Post by rmcalhoun on Apr 12, 2020 10:25:52 GMT -6
For the record, I do look forward to seeing Windham and Jones in the Cardinal & White. Both are MAC-level players. The question remains can they and whomever else we give the last two scholarships to lead us to a title? Are they better than Taj or Ish because I don’t think we have a player over 6-8 on our roster who replaces Teague and Ish was far and away our best guard. Good points, though I don't look to clone those players exactly. Ish had developed into a decent defender but that can be replaced, it is his outside scoring we will miss. We may have replaced that with Jones and Windham conceivably and can play Acree or Coleman or somebody else as a defender, rather than worrying about combining those traits.
Same for Taj. Obviously if we got a scorer/rebounder/defender inside we would not change our offense a bit and be delighted. But assume we got just a rebounder and defender to replace Taj, I think we can redistribute scoring. If we got a scorer outside like the UIndy PF Lake then we might replace some of Teague with his bulk inside and and some of Ish with his shooting.
Most important overall to stay in the top 3 or 4 in the MAC is we get 3 MAC level players to replace Teague, Maller and Ish.
Ideally two must be able to play up front, ideally all should be athletic. Kroft was a an athletic wing player who eventually might have helped to partly replace Ish and Mallers, but we have Acree, Coleman, even Thomas who can play similar roles. Whether everybody likes it or not, the staff over two years has aimed for more athleticism rather than size and the greatest failure to me has been in not finding shooters. If we have shooters who can stretch the floor we will be able to score inside on drives by players like Acree, Jones, Windham et al.
The second failing in achieving this vision is a quicker ball handler and defender at guard. That job defending smaller guards may be going to Bumbalough more because he is too small to guard a wing guard, but with KJ eventually graduating we need a jet. If we can use this pack line idea better we might work around that failing.
Whats the most important sentence in this whole breakdown.. Most important overall to stay in the top 3 or 4 in the MAC is we get 3 MAC level players to replace Teague, Maller and Ish. Why the heck is this ok... Why is being 3 or 4 acceptable? How long is staying in the top three or four most important.... What Do we need to win the damn thing.. What do we need to make the tourney.. When does 20 years stretch to 30 and 30 to forever.. At some point we have to stop saying just being good is good enough
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Post by williamtsherman on Apr 12, 2020 10:36:51 GMT -6
Top 3 or 4 is just good enough to keep around a coach who can't win in the post season to save his life.
That's a very revealing goal, isn't it?
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Post by cardfan on Apr 12, 2020 10:54:54 GMT -6
Boys, as bad is the budget is, and it’s gonna get Really bad, the only way Whitford ever leaves is on his own.
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Post by rmcalhoun on Apr 12, 2020 11:24:37 GMT -6
Boys, as bad is the budget is, and it’s gonna get Really bad, the only way Whitford ever leaves is on his own. true
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Post by cardfan on Apr 12, 2020 11:24:39 GMT -6
Bottom line, we can wish list and trumpet guys every year and proclaim greatness to come. And we end up with.. meh. Every time. Not even close to a championship. Best we can do is “tie” for the lead in a bad west division. And it doesn’t matter what we “might” have done this year or what mythical outcome kenpom might predict. We could just as easily lost in the first game in Cleveland. It must be my chosen profession, but I feel the Cards were peeking at the right time. The bench was making great strides and I feel a Championship was in the Cards. Could I be wrong, possible. But I will always give the Cards the benefit of the doubt. By the end of the season we were on the cusp. It’s too bad we didn’t get a shot in the Mac tourney.
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Post by 00hmh on Apr 12, 2020 11:57:28 GMT -6
Most important overall to stay in the top 3 or 4 in the MAC is we get 3 MAC level players to replace Teague, Maller and Ish.
Whats the most important sentence in this whole breakdown.. Most important overall to stay in the top 3 or 4 in the MAC is we get 3 MAC level players to replace Teague, Maller and Ish. Why the heck is this ok... Why is being 3 or 4 acceptable? How long is staying in the top three or four most important.... What Do we need to win the damn thing.. What do we need to make the tourney.. When does 20 years stretch to 30 and 30 to forever.. At some point we have to stop saying just being good is good enough Whether it is acceptable or not to be in the top 3 or 4 is another debate, to judge this class by whether we are champions next year is not a reasonable metric about this recruiting year.
Nobody has to be happy about the long championship drought, but this year we had a chance to get to the Final game and win it with a top 3 showing. I am not blown away by that, everyone wants more. It's fine to argue the merits of the recruits, that's interesting. Whining about the last 20 years in every thread on the board isn't necessary though.
Nor is dissing the coaches and players every thread necessary. The worst of the lot in that regard early in every recruiting thread say the staff is lazy and not pursuing anybody. As each recruit serfaced they said we had no chance because of being lazy and incompetent. We both know coaches and have known coaches over the last years, and know that they do not deserve that.
Now that it is apparent the staff have some good targets, why not discuss the recruits and their merits.
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Post by bsutrack on Apr 12, 2020 12:34:50 GMT -6
Boys, as bad is the budget is, and it’s gonna get Really bad, the only way Whitford ever leaves is on his own. I'm thinking we follow the Western Michigan model. As with Hawkins, we play Whitford down to the last year on his contract, as bad as recruiting would be that last year, and then replace him with whatever we can find.
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Post by reevo on Apr 12, 2020 12:38:50 GMT -6
Speaking of recruiting. Here is a list of the top 2020 JUCO players:
Below you will find the 2020 JucoRecruiting.com Top 100 Player Rankings.
*Freshman Qualifiers are not listed on rankings until they have committed to a 4 year program
Rank Name Height School Position Committed 1 Tyon Grant-Foster 6'7 Indian Hills CC Wing Kansas 2 Jay Scrubb 6'6 John A Logan College Wing Louisville/NBA 3 Kedrian Johnson 6'4 Temple College SG West Virginia 4 Sardaar Calhoun 6'4 Missouri West Plains SG Florida State 5 Keon Ellis 6'4 FL Southwestern CG Alabama 6 Vince Cole 6'5 USC Salkehatchie SG St Johns 7 Russell Harrison 6'7 Clarendon College Wing Louisiana Monroe 8 Teddy Allen 6'5 Western Nebraska CC Wing Nebraska 9 Valdir Manuel 6'10 Harcum College PF Penn State 10 Kevin Osawe 6'6 Vincennes Univesity Wing 11 D'Moi Hodge 6'4 SCF - Manatee SG Cleveland State 12 Shahada Wells 5'10 Tyler JC PG UT Arlington 13 Justin Johnson 6'7 South GA Tech Wing 14 Isaih Moore 6'10 Pearl River CC PF St Johns 15 Craig Porter 6'3 Vincennes Univesity CG Wichita State 16 DeAndre Pinckney 6'8 Broward College PF 17 Tariq Silver 6'5 Tallahassee CC SG Oregon State 18 Lat Mayen 6'9 Chipola College PF Nebraska 19 Travis Henson 6'6 Angelina College Wing Cal State Bakersfield 20 David Walker 6'3 Casper College CG South Alabama 21 Tyron McMillian 6'10 Kilgore College PF Georgia 22 Jason King 6'5 Snead State G New Mexico State 23 Clarence Jackson 6'7 Polk State G/F Wichita State 24 JD Muila 6'8 Indian Hills CC F Southern Illinois 25 Marial Mading 6'11 Chipola College F Pacific 26 Eric Boone 6'3 John A Logan PG 27 Berrick JeanLouis 6'4 FL Southwestern G Iona 28 Rodrigue Andela 6'8 Kilgore College PF Oregon State 29 Osborn Shema 7'1 New Mexico Military C Iona 30 Esahia Nywie 6'10 Clarendon College PF 31 Seth Millner 6'5 Northwest FL State Wing Toledo 32 Miles Norris 6'10 CC of San Francisco F/C UC Santa Barbara 33 Osayi Osifo 6'9 Eastern FL State F Florida 34 DeAndre Gholston 6'5 Tallahassee CC Wing 35 Tekorian Smith 6'4 Polk State SG 36 Chris Childs 6'3 Indian Hills CC G Bryant 37 Tae Hardy 6'2 Pearl River CC PG Southern Miss 38 Justice Hill 6'0 Salt Lake CC PG Murray State 39 Maurice Calloo 6'9 Indian Hills CC F 40 Keaton Hervey 6'6 New Mexico JC W/F Missouri State 41 Ahmad Rand 6'8 USC Salkehatchie F Memphis 42 Nighael Ceaser 6'7 Collin County F Texas State 43 Shawndarius Cowart 6'4 Pensacola State CG Hofstra 44 RayQuawndis Mitchell 6'5 Otero JC G 45 Demarcus Sharp 6'4 Colby CC G Missouri State 46 Malcolm Stevenson 6'4 Polk State G Queens (D2) 47 Marco Morency 6'3 Daytona State G 48 CJ Roberts 6'0 Ranger College CG 49 Jonathan Ned 6'9 Eastern FL State Wing Georgia 50 Malik Zachery 6'2 Chipola College PG 51 Brayan Au 6'3 Ranger College SG 52 Mardrez McBride 6'3 USC Salkehatchie PG North Texas 53 Rifen Miguel 6'8 Tallahassee CC PF 54 Reaudale Williams 6'3 Northeastern OK A&M PG Kansas State 55 Jaron Williams 6'5 College of Central FL Wing UT Martin 56 Saquan Singleton 6'6 Hutchinson CC Wing New Mexico 57 Terence Lewis 6'7 New Mexico JC F 58 Sheldon Stevens 6'3 Southern AR Tech CG Oral Roberts 59 Jordan Guest 6'9 Tallahassee CC PF College of Charleston 60 Gideon George 6'7 New Mexico JC PF BYU 61 Nate Pryor 6'4 North Idaho College G Washington 62 Jay Pal 6'8 Clarendon College F 63 Nic Tata 6'10 Blinn CC C Missouri State 64 Rodgerick Brown 6'7 Pearl River CC F Tulsa 65 Austin Richie 6'6 Triton College Wing Tulsa 66 Malique Jacobs 6'3 Indian Hills CC G Kent State 67 Donchavell Nugent 6'0 Clarendon College G 68 David Pierce 6'4 Chipola College SG 69 Jalen Moore 5'10 Olney Central PG 70 Cam Holden 6'6 Gulf Coast State Wing 71 Markise Davis 6'7 Wallace State Wing Arkansas State 72 Markelo Sullivan 6'4 Moberly Area G Tennessee Tech 73 Kieffer Punter 6'4 Tyler JC G Troy 74 RJ Duhart 6'9 NW Miss F App State 75 Manel Ayol 6'7 Western Wyoming F Hawaii 76 Cheikh Faye 6'6 Chipola College Wing 77 Alex Kotov 6'9 Daytona State PF Illinois State 78 Demaree King 6'0 NOC - Tonkawa PG Jacksonville State 79 James Jordan 6'5 Triton College CG Kent State 80 Fredelin De La Cruz 6'8 South Plains F UT Arlington 81 Darius Harding 6'5 Motlow State SG Northern Kentucky 82 Jace Bass 6'3 Long Beach City SG Louisiana Tech 83 Trevin Wade 5'10 GA Highlands College PG 84 Miles Coleman 6'5 Indian River State G NJIT 85 Kailex Stephens 6'7 Tallahassee CC F Indiana State 86 Marcus Garrett 6'2 Wabash Valley College SG 87 Edoardo Del Cadia 6'8 College of Central FL F UNLV 88 Damara Franklin 6'3 State Fair CC SG Tennessee Tech 89 Elton Walker 6'5 Miami Dade College Wing Austin Peay 90 Drake Jeffries 6'5 Indian Hills CC SG Wyoming 91 Latrell Jones 6'5 College of Central FL Wing Portland 92 Meikkel Murray 6'7 Coffeyville CC SF 93 Cameron Woodall 6'7 Copiah Lincoln CC PF Grambling State 94 Spencer Rodgers 6'4 Southwest Miss CC SG Kennesaw State 95 Tahlik Chavez 6'3 Garden City G Iona 96 Naje Smith 6'7 Cochise College F Boise State 97 Carlos Rosario 6'7 Pensacola State F McNeese State 98 Tim Holland 6'8 Palm Beach State PF 99 Deshaun Highler 6'3 East LA College G Sacremento State 100 AJ Rainey 6'0 Blinn CC PG Nicholls State Honarable Mention (In Alphabetical Order) Adong Makuoi 6'9 Daytona State F Asa McCord 6'6 Salt Lake Wing Utah Valley Blayton Williams 6'3 Lamar CC G Green Bay Bryce McBride 6'0 Dyersburg State G Eastern Michigan Cam Burrell 6'7 Highland CC F Western Illinois Cam Copeland 6'5 McLennan College G College of Charleston Carlos Curtis 6'3 Triton College G Christian Guess 6'6 North Idaho College Wing Cyrie Coates 6'5 CC of Beaver County G Texas A&M CC Damien Dear 6'0 Southwest Miss PG Dante Moses 6'4 Daytona State SG Radford Darius Guinn 6'7 Central Wyoming G Bryant DeAndre Heckerd 6'1 Tyler JC G Stephen F Austin DeAnthony Tipler 6'0 Northeast Miss CC PG Portland Devaughn Thomas 6'6 Lamar State PA Wing DJ Mitchell 6'4 Hutchinson CC SG FIU Dom London 6'2 Harcum College SG FGCU Donte Powers 6'2 East Mississippi CC CG Dontrell McQuarter 6'7 Hinds CC F Rider Drew Lamont 6'8 Indian River State F Wyoming Dylan O'Hearn 6'4 Western OK State G NJIT Eddie Creal 6'4 Moberly Area G Eddie Davis 6'7 Colby CC F Portland Emmett Page 6'2 Northeast G Evansville Gabe Oneal 6'7 Mineral Area College PF Kent State Immanuel Crump 6'8 Coffeyville CC F Sam Houston State Isiah Dasher 6'3 SCF - Manatee G Jalen Finch 6'1 FL Southwestern PG Jalen Shaw 6'10 Triton College F/C Jamel Horton 6'4 Pratt CC G Albany Jermaine Drewey 6'2 Panola G Longwood Josiah Strong 6'2 Iowa Western PG Illinois State Jovan McClanahan 5'10 Sheridan College PG Hawaii Juan Felix Rodriguez 6'0 Monroe G Stony Brook Junior Farquhar 6'2 South Plains PG Khalil Johnson 6'8 Shelton State F Mike Hood 6'2 Southern Idaho SG Montana State Noble Cooper 6'6 North Dakota SCS Wing Idaho State Quentin Jones 6'8 Missouri West Plains PF NC A&T Quilan Bennett 6'3 Triton G Lamar Quincy Urbina 6'7 CC of San Francisco Wing Grand Canyon Reyhan Cobb 6'9 National Park College F Grambling State Silas Love 6'7 Brunswick CC F Simeon Kirkland 6'9 FL Southwestern PF Spencer Johnson 6'5 Salt Lake CC SG BYU Tafari Simms 6'6 Western Texas F Tavon Jones 6'3 Odessa College G Torey James 6'5 Cape Fear CC G San Jose State Victor Nwagbarocha 6'3 Highland G Yahel Hill 6'0 Tallahassee CC PG Cleveland State Yusuf Mohamed 6'10 North Idaho College PF Tennessee State Zahir Porter 6'6 Independence CC G Weber State
If I were to guess, Jalen Shaw, a 6’10 post player out of Triton JC and he is from Elgin Illinois could possibly be a target from our staff. It is purely a guess if we are targeting bigs from the JC level. The guys that have not committed are all pretty active on Twitter and BSU is not mentioned. Shaw is somewhat local and kind of fits the Whitford m.o. for big players. He is a shot blocker, can shoot the mid range jumper and runs relatively well. There is some decent video of him and he looks ok. Again, this is purely guess work on my part. For all I know, BSU is not looking at JC kids. Just trying to do some investigative work on potential transfer and JC big kids available as we patiently wait on Hunsakers big guy recruit to emerge.
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Post by cardfan on Apr 12, 2020 12:46:29 GMT -6
I do not think Whitford looks at jucos anymore after his initial attempts failed miserably.
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Post by thebsukid on Apr 12, 2020 13:09:43 GMT -6
Bum has a lot in that tank and is a fighter which most would agree!
And, we’ll never know how post season would have gone...General likely having us lose the first game with the kid saying we’d have won it all!
Actually truth is as Cardfan said we were playing our best late but if had I been forced to bet I would have bet a loss to Akron in the final.
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