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Post by rmcalhoun on Apr 12, 2020 13:14:44 GMT -6
I'm not dissing the coaches I've said multiple times he did enough with what he had this year to be fine. But if he cant get do something more next year then we can not extend again. You have to cut the cord at some point
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Post by williamtsherman on Apr 12, 2020 13:31:56 GMT -6
Whether it is acceptable or not to be in the top 3 or 4 is another debate....
Nor is dissing the coaches and players every thread necessary. The worst of the lot in that regard early in every recruiting thread say the staff is lazy and not pursuing anybody. As each recruit serfaced they said we had no chance because of being lazy and incompetent. We both know coaches and have known coaches over the last years, and know that they do not deserve that.
What ISN'T acceptable is when top 3 or 4 is your coach's CEILING. Sometimes he's quite a bit worse. Does it really take more than 7 years to see that's the case here? If so, how many? Ten? Twenty? You tell me. I think it's pretty clear that Whitford has a distaste for the grind of recruiting. I have no idea about the staff, but when the head coach is a low horsepower recruiter there is probably little an assistant can do to overcome that. I think I would hate recruiting myself - it has to be incredibly draining and a bit demeaning. Problem is, those who Whitford is competing against do a better job of overcoming their distaste or...who knows?...might even kind of like it. This is a huge huge disadvantage and mostly explains why his ceiling is where it has proven to be.
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Post by 00hmh on Apr 12, 2020 13:41:01 GMT -6
I'm not dissing the coaches I've said multiple times he did enough with what he had this year to be fine. But if he cant get do something more next year then we can not extend again. You have to cut the cord at some point If we have a good class and end up anywhere near the top of the MAC that is an established turn around from his first years. Not everything we want, but I don't see administration hiring a sure thing better coach on the current budget and don't see budget getting better.
Top 3 or 4 on any kind of consistent basis is not going to be fired. This is more like our current FB coach, doesn't have to be better than the top 3 or 4 in the MAC to keep his job.
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Post by rmcalhoun on Apr 12, 2020 15:12:03 GMT -6
Your right about the budget no one can argue that. You have said it yours self multiple times now top 3 or 4.. Is that OK with you? Its a yes or No question. No need to expand one way or the other. Is just being top 3 or 4 OK with you Yes or no.
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Post by 00hmh on Apr 12, 2020 15:35:40 GMT -6
Your right about the budget no one can argue that. You have said it yours self multiple times now top 3 or 4.. Is that OK with you? Its a yes or No question. No need to expand one way or the other. Is just being top 3 or 4 OK with you Yes or no. For renewing a contract yes. As a fan, everybody wants to win more.
Two different questions.
Besides if we are top 3 or 4 there are going to be years we can win in Cleveland. So even that is not black and white. This year was one such year. Not a favorite to do it, but quite possible.
The greatest decade in BSU history we did a bit better than top 3 for a lot of those years. I don't think anyone will ever match that decade.
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Post by rmcalhoun on Apr 12, 2020 15:51:46 GMT -6
Just could not say Yes or no could you.. I knew you could not lol.. That was really my test.
So top three or four is good enough for you and sadly that is good enough for most.
If we have another season like this year I would rather us higher anyone and see what happens. If we crash and burn so be it hire someone else after three years. Treading water sucks..
You brought up Neu so Ill address that as well.. If we can not win 6-7 games and be a contender for a mac Championship he needs to go too.
Everyone knows I have friends on Both staffs and I would hate it personally for all of them but Winning and Winning championships is what coaching is at a d1 level..
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Post by JacksonStreetElite on Apr 12, 2020 16:04:44 GMT -6
Just could not say Yes or no could you.. I knew you could not lol.. That was really my test. So top three or four is good enough for you and sadly that is good enough for most. Preseason hype is good enough for me. Let’s not bother with actual results. Those usually just bum me out.
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Post by 00hmh on Apr 12, 2020 16:41:37 GMT -6
Wanting championships is fine. Frustration with past failure is completely understandable. Acting on that frustration desperately and wildly flailing about is a bad solution.
The question is not wanting it, it's how do we do it with the resources we have.
If you think keeping what we have is unlikely to get there, I say "hiring anybody" in desperation is a worse bet.
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Post by rmcalhoun on Apr 12, 2020 17:01:07 GMT -6
Ok so your stuck on the finances of it.. So my next question is if finances were not an Issue would Whitford still be your coach.. Yes or NO will be fine
But to answer yours of how. If we can not make a move with one year left then you sacrifice the recruiting and let him play it out lame duck.. You do not know extend him again(this applies to Mike as Well). This is the worst way to do it but if that is the only option it is what has to be done.
As far as "anybody" as long as you can avoid a thompson situation.. What does it matter if you make the wrong hire. So what you finish 6th instead of third for three years and you do it again. Is finishing 6th any different than finishing third.. We have been finishing somewhere around there for 20 years.
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Post by redbirdman on Apr 12, 2020 17:42:44 GMT -6
The coach in basketball should recruit only transfers & jcs. No more redshirting if they are good they will leave before they play the 5th yr. The coach should win with in 4 yrs or be gone in bb. Money wise no one in our league is going to be giving big contracts. The salaries the current head coaches have will not be given their replacements because the non P5s will have no money.Sherm's right on Whit the sooner he goes the better off our chances of getting a recruiter in that job.
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Post by 00hmh on Apr 12, 2020 17:46:37 GMT -6
Finances are always an issue.
Give me significantly more budget, of course we could do better on the court.
Not sure as AD that I'd make moving from 3 to 1 a top priority in a bigger budget.
My prejudice is yes. But I am a fan. A financial manager asks what the ROI would be.
Better make it a dedicated gift when you write the check.
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Post by rmcalhoun on Apr 12, 2020 17:52:39 GMT -6
Finances are always an issue. Give me significantly more budget, of course we could do better on the court. Not sure as AD that I'd make moving from 3 to 1 a top priority in a bigger budget. My prejudice is yes. But I am a fan. A financial manager asks what the ROI would be. Better make it a dedicated gift when you write the check. If you do not extend your paying the same or likely less for similar results.. Maybe you get Lucky or maybe you get shit... Wash repeat go for it again
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Post by 00hmh on Apr 12, 2020 18:08:28 GMT -6
Could be.
Could be a change is worse. Why is 6 a floor?
But making a change not only is hardly a sure thing, not only is there downside, but even doing the same would likely come only after a year or two of reinventing the wheel and losing ground.
Also of course.
Could be. This staff now knows what it is doing and improves from where we are?
Being AD isn't a lot of fun is it?
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Post by williamtsherman on Apr 12, 2020 18:45:22 GMT -6
It seems to me that there is almost zero correlation between success in mid-major CBB coaching and initial salary.
But since 00's entire philosophy about the basketball program's success is built around the idea of outbidding other mid-majors for the "best" candidate, I assume he has VERY strong proof that a high initial salary is absolutely necessary to land a successful coach. Right? Maybe he should share the data that he finds so convincing. I mean, we KNOW he's not just pulling stuff out of his backside...right?
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Post by rmcalhoun on Apr 12, 2020 20:12:27 GMT -6
Could be. Could be a change is worse. Why is 6 a floor? But making a change not only is hardly a sure thing, not only is there downside, but even doing the same would likely come only after a year or two of reinventing the wheel and losing ground. Also of course. Could be. This staff now knows what it is doing and improves from where we are? Being AD isn't a lot of fun is it? 6 is just a number I picked we could finish 2 to last and my point would remain the same. If after 8 years we have a year similar to this one and the year before and the year before that etc etc.. You just have to accept the fact something is not working.. If you extend again you can expect more of the same. 8 years is enough to know what you have and its more time than 90% of other coaches get to win something more than 2 conference tournament games
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