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Post by lmills72 on Oct 5, 2020 20:01:45 GMT -6
As for the president, I admit that I don't usually watch video of him closely, but the video I saw of him leaving Marine One, walking to the White House and then walking up a flight of steps -- his breathing looked labored. Maybe that's the way an out-of-shape 74 year old looks after that level of activity, but he didn't look out of the woods to me.
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Post by rmcalhoun on Oct 5, 2020 20:07:16 GMT -6
Lets be honest trump is not fit so that could just be everyday life for him or it could be the virus we will never know. Complete honesty if I walk off a helicopter across a yeard then up a flight a stairs Im probably going to be taking an extra breath myself.. Im 45 and out of shape
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Post by villagepub on Oct 5, 2020 20:09:07 GMT -6
It pisses me off since the messaging sequence seems fairly likely to reflect dangerous political influence on the CDC. More important flip flopping creates even greater difficulty in dealing with public health communication. Almost rather see it stay inaccurate and be consistent on that count. Not quite though. Accurate is important. Supporting accurate science would be nice, regrettably not really valued by the Administration.
It is totally understandable scientific opinion can change. Initial opinion about the virus reflected what we knew then. Mostly sneezing and coughing was the known and reliable fact. If the new knowledge about airborne spread was well grounded, as it was, then making that part of the message and the policy change was essential.
That it was bad news and made the disease more dangerous seemed the main reason we saw a change. As winter approaches the evidence will mount that it was accurate to say airborne spread is important if not primary.
Glad to see the record straight but the CDC is clearly not independent and free of political influence.
The CDC has been vacillating on how to handle Covid-19 ever since February. It appears they have difficulty on agreeing about procedures, and it has not been an election season issue. The White House and CDC have been anything but in lock-step with its handling. |
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Post by 00hmh on Oct 5, 2020 21:11:26 GMT -6
The major early differences were based on early scientific knowledge and practical mask availability to save masks for medical personnel.
As they got more knowledge they advocated masks.
That was not waffling. They have never backed away from use of masks once the threat was understood.
The new information about aerosol spread is in the same category. New knowledge.
The first real waffling occured recently when the were ordered to pull the new knowledge. Political not scientific reasons most believe.
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Post by villagepub on Oct 5, 2020 21:23:14 GMT -6
The major early differences were based on early scientific knowledge and practical mask availability to save masks for medical personnel. As they got more knowledge they advocated masks. That was not waffling. They have never backed away from use of masks once the threat was understood. The new information about aerosol spread is in the same category. New knowledge. The first real waffling occured recently when the were ordered to pull the new knowledge. Political not scientific reasons most believe. They've been waffling on whether surfaces can harbor Covid-19, and how much of a risk it is, as well as the impact of masks, on the individual, and on others around the individual. They've even waffled over the effective distancing that must be used. The fact is waffling is confusing, and the CDC has been confusing the public since February, and continues to do so. It isn't a result of the administration yanking their chain. They still are not 100% sure of anything. Hence, the difficulty in preparing for a pandemic. |
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Post by lmills72 on Oct 5, 2020 21:35:19 GMT -6
If you're trying to make the CDC the scapegoat for the administration's failed response, that's quite a reach.
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Post by 00hmh on Oct 5, 2020 21:58:30 GMT -6
The major early differences were based on early scientific knowledge and practical mask availability to save masks for medical personnel. As they got more knowledge they advocated masks. That was not waffling. They have never backed away from use of masks once the threat was understood. The new information about aerosol spread is in the same category. New knowledge. The first real waffling occured recently when the were ordered to pull the new knowledge. Political not scientific reasons most believe. They've been waffling on whether surfaces can harbor Covid-19, and how much of a risk it is, as well as the impact of masks, on the individual, and on others around the individual. They've even waffled over the effective distancing that must be used. The fact is waffling is confusing, and the CDC has been confusing the public since February, and continues to do so. It isn't a result of the administration yanking their chain. They still are not 100% sure of anything. Hence, the difficulty in preparing for a pandemic. Science is about discovery, and indeed changing your mind as you discover and evaluate new information. And often you are not 100% sure early on, and even when very sure you leave open possible discovery of new information. That can be confusing, every science student knows that! But being difficult to understand and confusing is not waffling. Waffling is not making your mind up about a known set of facts, or talking at length about something with no conclusion. Constantly going back and forth without good reasons. That's a lot different. Neither definition above applies here to CDC. |
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Post by rmcalhoun on Oct 5, 2020 22:00:11 GMT -6
Wouldn't it be a whole lot easier if some one just told the truth. The cdc,dems,rep, communists, socialists who ever were not ready for this. It would not have mattered who was in office mistakes would have been made. Maybe we only have 100,000 deaths or we have 300,000 only thing we know is alot of people would have died no matter who was running the show. Its a newish virus so we are going to learn things as time goes by.. New procedures,New treatments etc.. First person to say that gets my undecided vote..Even if its Kanye
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Post by 00hmh on Oct 5, 2020 22:08:28 GMT -6
Sounds like your theory would be they need to wait until they have perfect knowledge to act. That's a poor strategy in battle.
From the start they stressed it was a new and dangerous virus, not fully understood.
In public health good information and consistent messaging about best scientific advice is critical.
Trump's strategy to withhold and even misrepresent facts to achieve political advantage may win elections, but are pretty poor public health strategies.
What he continues to do is imply or outright assure people they need not worry, it is no problem. That is simply a lie.
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Post by 00hmh on Oct 5, 2020 22:15:27 GMT -6
Wouldn't it be a whole lot easier if some one just told the truth. The cdc,dems,rep, communists, socialists who ever were not ready for this. It would not have mattered who was in office mistakes would have been made. Maybe we only have 100,000 deaths or we have 300,000 only thing we know is alot of people would have died no matter who was running the show. Its a newish virus so we are going to learn things as time goes by.. New procedures,New treatments etc.. First person to say that gets my undecided vote..Even if its Kanye No. There is good evidence this many people need not have died. A lot of suffering may have been inevitable, even if we had done our best. But we know we didn't come close to doing a good job. C'mon. No other developed nation has has our record. And why we were unprepared is the other issue. We had the best experts and had a head start by having exposure later in the game. We dithered and ignored what was happening. Not the scientists, but the WH decision makers. Some of that was ignorant negligence and poor management, against advice of experts, some of that was a conscious gamble Trump made. |
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Post by lmills72 on Oct 5, 2020 22:27:28 GMT -6
Wouldn't it be a whole lot easier if some one just told the truth. The cdc,dems,rep, communists, socialists who ever were not ready for this. It would not have mattered who was in office mistakes would have been made. Maybe we only have 100,000 deaths or we have 300,000 only thing we know is alot of people would have died no matter who was running the show. Its a newish virus so we are going to learn things as time goes by.. New procedures,New treatments etc.. First person to say that gets my undecided vote..Even if its Kanye Certainly, it would be nice to know the whole truth from all sides/departments. But we know this: There is only one person in this whole mess who has never made a mistake because he's taken no responsibility for anything that's ever gone wrong. This also happens to be the same person who has made lying an art form. If you're primarily interested in truth, it's pretty clear where you aren't going to get it. |
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Post by 00hmh on Oct 5, 2020 22:52:09 GMT -6
I don't expect perfect, I do expect spin when there are mistakes, both are going to happen, but I expect better than this.
I expect much nearer to the reasonably best results from a well thought out well executed plan, or good reason why it failed. I see neither here.
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Post by rmcalhoun on Oct 5, 2020 23:07:32 GMT -6
Wouldn't it be a whole lot easier if some one just told the truth. The cdc,dems,rep, communists, socialists who ever were not ready for this. It would not have mattered who was in office mistakes would have been made. Maybe we only have 100,000 deaths or we have 300,000 only thing we know is alot of people would have died no matter who was running the show. Its a newish virus so we are going to learn things as time goes by.. New procedures,New treatments etc.. First person to say that gets my undecided vote..Even if its Kanye No. There is good evidence this many people need not have died. A lot of suffering may have been inevitable, even if we had done our best. But we know we didn't come close to doing a good job. C'mon. No other developed nation has has our record. And why we were unprepared is the other issue. We had the best experts and had a head start by having exposure later in the game. We dithered and ignored what was happening. Not the scientists, but the WH decision makers. Some of that was ignorant negligence and poor management, against advice of experts, some of that was a conscious gamble Trump made. Never said we did a good job but there is no way to know if anyone else would have did better. Do you think the people who are refusing to wear masks now would be wearing them if anyone elsr was in charge.. The answer is no they would not be. People in the USA are used to doing what they when they want. |
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Post by rmcalhoun on Oct 5, 2020 23:11:11 GMT -6
Wouldn't it be a whole lot easier if some one just told the truth. The cdc,dems,rep, communists, socialists who ever were not ready for this. It would not have mattered who was in office mistakes would have been made. Maybe we only have 100,000 deaths or we have 300,000 only thing we know is alot of people would have died no matter who was running the show. Its a newish virus so we are going to learn things as time goes by.. New procedures,New treatments etc.. First person to say that gets my undecided vote..Even if its Kanye Certainly, it would be nice to know the whole truth from all sides/departments. But we know this: There is only one person in this whole mess who has never made a mistake because he's taken no responsibility for anything that's ever gone wrong. This also happens to be the same person who has made lying an art form. If you're primarily interested in truth, it's pretty clear where you aren't going to get it. Trump has certainly made mistakes but there are also 50 governers who can do what ever they like in their states. They could make masks mandatory and enforce. They could enforce quarantines etc.. You just can't blame trump for the mistakes |
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Post by rmcalhoun on Oct 5, 2020 23:18:22 GMT -6
I'm not a trump guy but you can't lay all the blame on him.. Everyone has dropped a piece of this ball
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