|
|
Post by 00hmh on Oct 5, 2020 23:40:44 GMT -6
I'm not a trump guy but you can't lay all the blame on him.. Everyone has dropped a piece of this ball Yes and no. He had the greatest power and the greatest responsibility. Greatest blame. Not just bad management and failure to help states respond, or lead them. Especially in misinforming misleading the public. This is a national problem. Not 50 completely unrelated problems. The individual states needed coordination and guidance at the least. The governors in red states needed political cover for painful choices and still need that and resources. The greatest failure by governors were following Trump's lead, as his allies. Most did not have means to go on their own. Nor could they disagree with Trump once he took a position. I can blame them too. But that doesn't absolve Trump for far greater share of blame. |
|
|
|
Post by 00hmh on Oct 5, 2020 23:58:55 GMT -6
Trump made mistakes but there are also 50 governers who can do what ever they like in their states. They could make masks mandatory and enforce. They could enforce quarantines etc.. In red states that is doubtful with Trump having opposed those steps. And in some blue and purple states Trump loyalists control legislatures and/or courts as in Wisconsin. Doesn't mean no blame, I'll agree. Masks and shutdown were not possible until things were pretty far along, Trump then opposed both, still does. Had he been even neutral and we acted earlier and reopened more gradually, we might have had a shorter shutdown and more successful reopening. That issue exists and will exist again if we aren't lucky. Trump is unable to admit mistake and took too strong a position early to back down on. Maybe a bad wilful knowing gamble, maybe just ignorant. Blameworthy either way. |
|
|
|
Post by 00hmh on Oct 6, 2020 8:45:22 GMT -6
I agree with you Im not sure how you deal with that though. I guess if someone does not want to be there they have the option to quit the other possibility is people are staying away from him the white house is big.. He wears a mask behind closed doors as do the others then he removes the mask right as the doors are opening,, creating the illusion of the non masked mad man.. The more I think about it this is probably the case Aren't they faced with an impossible conflict between good faith and duty versus danger. It just should not be true (or legal) that workers have to quit because their boss makes the workplace dangerous, in this case consciously and intentionally. I agree it might be a good idea for them to quit or call in sick, since the President will say and act as if the law doesn't apply to him.
I think his work is going to be theoretically confined to the residence, but harm was probably done the day or two he knew he was sick, had even been tested positive, but continued to expose those around him.
He had to know he is endangering others, that he should isolate. This is not ignorant negligence, it's intentional wrong, disregard for others.
The stunt in the SUV outside the hospital exposed driver and SS agent, there was no doubt at that point. He throws loyal staff under the bus for a photo op.
|
|
|
|
Post by rmcalhoun on Oct 6, 2020 9:52:17 GMT -6
Trump made mistakes but there are also 50 governers who can do what ever they like in their states. They could make masks mandatory and enforce. They could enforce quarantines etc.. In red states that is doubtful with Trump having opposed those steps. And in some blue and purple states Trump loyalists control legislatures and/or courts as in Wisconsin. Doesn't mean no blame, I'll agree. Masks and shutdown were not possible until things were pretty far along, Trump then opposed both, still does. Had he been even neutral and we acted earlier and reopened more gradually, we might have had a shorter shutdown and more successful reopening. That issue exists and will exist again if we aren't lucky. Trump is unable to admit mistake and took too strong a position early to back down on. Maybe a bad wilful knowing gamble, maybe just ignorant. Blameworthy either way. Yes he deserves some blame no argument on that. As far as admitting he was wrong.. When was the last time you heard any president come out and say I f'd that up.. You might get some spin and deflection saying mabe I was misinformed by...... but acutal admittance of being wrong is like a unicorn with any politician |
|
|
|
Post by 00hmh on Oct 6, 2020 10:44:41 GMT -6
Public officials rather frequently rescind decisions and have to reevaluate them. I'm not asking for public confession of error, just acknowledgement that good decisions sometimes go wrong and you have to change course.
The unable to admit mistake problem also is not just public in statments. If he makes an internal and private decision it is critical sometimes to back down and change course.
But that is really hard to him apparently. First he rarely wants to think about things much in the initial call, distrusts experts, wants to just go with his gut. But then. All too often he doesn't assess the decisions he makes and reevaluate them later.
EVERY decision he makes is not just right and correct, it is GREAT.He may believe this. It's not just spin for him.
No doubt the public and private admission of fallibility are related problems for him, since he wants to make everything he does important and public. Gives him less chance to change course when he publicly commits and then is challenged by the facts. He doubles down. Denies the fact. It's one thing to gamble and take a risk, it's another thing to continue betting a losing hand. |
|
|
|
Post by rmcalhoun on Oct 6, 2020 19:10:21 GMT -6
|
|
|
|
Post by lmills72 on Oct 6, 2020 20:22:07 GMT -6
I thought about voting early, but in my previous experience doing that, I was one of several hundred voters crammed into a narrow hallway for hours before being shoved into a smallish room with 5-6 voting machines. I can easily see it being what McCormick describes.
That's why I decided to vote on Election Day. My normal polling place is a large gymnasium with plenty of room for social distancing.
BTW, isn't it about time Election Day became a national holiday? Why should people have to decide between voting and working?
With the hours of my work, I'll have a small window during which to vote. Normally that would be sufficient, but if turnout is heavy ...? For some of my co-workers who commute up to an hour each way, there's even less time for them.
|
|
|
|
Post by villagepub on Oct 6, 2020 21:00:00 GMT -6
They've been waffling on whether surfaces can harbor Covid-19, and how much of a risk it is, as well as the impact of masks, on the individual, and on others around the individual. They've even waffled over the effective distancing that must be used. The fact is waffling is confusing, and the CDC has been confusing the public since February, and continues to do so. It isn't a result of the administration yanking their chain. They still are not 100% sure of anything. Hence, the difficulty in preparing for a pandemic. Science is about discovery, and indeed changing your mind as you discover and evaluate new information. And often you are not 100% sure early on, and even when very sure you leave open possible discovery of new information. That can be confusing, every science student knows that! But being difficult to understand and confusing is not waffling. Waffling is not making your mind up about a known set of facts, or talking at length about something with no conclusion. Constantly going back and forth without good reasons. That's a lot different. Neither definition above applies here to CDC. Your definition of "waffling" is contrived, and is incorrect. Waffling is changing your position frequently, plain and simple. That is what has happened and it is confusing the public. The public loses confidence in frequently changing positions. |
|
|
|
Post by 00hmh on Oct 6, 2020 22:01:42 GMT -6
Change in opinion due to new theoretical knowledge or changing factual context is called science not waffling.
We've had scientific understanding change. Some uncertainty because we were operating in the dark on some particulars of behavior of a new virus originally.
We know more now, should not criticize change in some opinion as we learn. That is not indecision or capricious decision.
My definition is accurate.
CDC from the start acknowledged they had imperfect information. Epidemiology is sound science, trust the experts.
Would you rather they said nothing? Or didn't change as they gathered knowledge?
|
|
|
|
Post by 00hmh on Oct 7, 2020 11:44:21 GMT -6
|
|
|
|
Post by 00hmh on Oct 7, 2020 14:54:02 GMT -6
Speaking of new science, at least new to me.
Find the example they use about the billionaire who walks into a bar, and how averages are deceptive.
The implication may be to try to identify and isolate the superspreader individual and do a better job of contact tracing. This is an almost completely neglected public health prescription. We have not only been bad at masking and distance which definitely would help, but really horrible at contact tracing in cases where that resulted in infection.
The WH outbreak may be an example of this.
|
|
|
|
Post by lmills72 on Oct 7, 2020 18:03:29 GMT -6
Your definition of "waffling" is contrived, and is incorrect. Waffling is changing your position frequently, plain and simple. That is what has happened and it is confusing the public. The public loses confidence in frequently changing positions. You know I keep reading on this message board that the public is confused, but I personally know of nobody who's confused. Some folks who don't like to wear masks like to use changes in policy/procedure as an excuse to throw a fit/complain, but they aren't really confused. They might be contrary or obstinate, but they know what they're doing and why. |
|
|
|
Post by rmcalhoun on Oct 7, 2020 18:16:29 GMT -6
Your definition of "waffling" is contrived, and is incorrect. Waffling is changing your position frequently, plain and simple. That is what has happened and it is confusing the public. The public loses confidence in frequently changing positions. You know I keep reading on this message board that the public is confused, but I personally know of nobody who's confused. Some folks who don't like to wear masks like to use changes in policy/procedure as an excuse to throw a fit/complain, but they aren't really confused. They might be contrary or obstinate, but they know what they're doing and why. I agree 100% with this the people I know who do not mask or make huge deals out of it.. Just either do not think it works or they just do not want to do it |
|
|
|
Post by 00hmh on Oct 7, 2020 19:05:02 GMT -6
|
|
|
|
Post by villagepub on Oct 7, 2020 19:43:41 GMT -6
Your definition of "waffling" is contrived, and is incorrect. Waffling is changing your position frequently, plain and simple. That is what has happened and it is confusing the public. The public loses confidence in frequently changing positions. You know I keep reading on this message board that the public is confused, but I personally know of nobody who's confused. Some folks who don't like to wear masks like to use changes in policy/procedure as an excuse to throw a fit/complain, but they aren't really confused. They might be contrary or obstinate, but they know what they're doing and why. Guess you don't get out much. |
|
