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Post by sweep on Nov 26, 2021 21:04:49 GMT -6
You have to love this Biden tweet from Feb 2020.
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Post by 00hmh on Nov 26, 2021 21:17:49 GMT -6
The US average currently is 64 cases per 100,000.
Florida, a warm weather state with higher vaccination rate than most warm weather states is not surprisingly doing well compared to cold weather states.
Do the math for all Red states.
Wyoming and South Dakota for example have over 100 cases per 100,000.
Separate out and adjust for weather and vaccination rate. Your conclusion is dramatically wrong.
Might want to compare deaths. And compare over the last 4 months to see accurately where we have a problem.
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Post by bsutrack on Nov 27, 2021 0:30:10 GMT -6
The US average currently is 64 cases per 100,000. Florida, a warm weather state with higher vaccination rate than most warm weather states is not surprisingly doing well compared to cold weather states. Do the math for all Red states. Wyoming and South Dakota for example have over 100 cases per 100,000. Separate out and adjust for weather and vaccination rate. Your conclusion is dramatically wrong. Might want to compare deaths. And compare over the last 4 months to see accurately where we have a problem. Oh come on, the populations of South Dakota and Wyoming are so small they can easily be influenced. You need to take a statistics course and learn about small sample size and the erroneous conclusions they can lead to. As for higher vaccination rates for Florida, I thought one of your ongoing arguments were red states, such as Florida, always have lower vaccination rates because they are chock full of Trump supporters. Are you rethinking that argument? I did read an interesting article about a week ago about humidity and Covid-19 increases. Can't seem to find it right now, but the basic premise was low humidity levels correlated with Covid-19 outbreaks. Something about wetter conditions in the nasal cavities, associated with higher humidity, made it more difficult for the virus to infect the potential victim. Not saying I believe the article, but if true could explain what is happening in Europe currently and as such would have little to do with vaccination rates, wearing a mask, or if you are a Republican or Democrat.
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Post by 00hmh on Nov 27, 2021 9:50:14 GMT -6
The US average currently is 64 cases per 100,000. Florida, a warm weather state with higher vaccination rate than most warm weather states is not surprisingly doing well compared to cold weather states. Do the math for all Red states. Wyoming and South Dakota for example have over 100 cases per 100,000. Separate out and adjust for weather and vaccination rate. Your conclusion is dramatically wrong. Might want to compare deaths. And compare over the last 4 months to see accurately where we have a problem. Oh come on, the populations of South Dakota and Wyoming are so small they can easily be influenced. You need to take a statistics course and learn about small sample size and the erroneous conclusions they can lead to. As for higher vaccination rates for Florida, I thought one of your ongoing arguments were red states, such as Florida, always have lower vaccination rates because they are chock full of Trump supporters. Are you rethinking that argument? You should look at what your hypothesis was and support it, not cherry pick states that conform to it. Florida has lots of retired older population. Whatever their politics they know they are vulnerable and want to live...It is a warm weather state. I used heavily red states to address your idea that blue states have the problem, and conservative politics is a strong plus factor in the pandemic, a very doubtful proposition. Your hypothesis about red states did not talk about population. Only politics. Point out a cold weather red state which is doing well and I'll take a look at that. Point out a low vaccine red state state doing well and we can look at that. Vax rate is the strongest variable, weather is significant. Politics is a negative in terms of rate of infection since it strongly impacts vax rate.
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Post by bsutrack on Nov 27, 2021 15:56:20 GMT -6
The US average currently is 64 cases per 100,000. Putting cases in terms of per 100,000 is a good way to quantify things. Germany definitely has a problem in spite of your attempt a few days ago to misdirect by pointing out an even larger problem in Eastern Europe. "On Friday in Germany, the weekly incidence of Covid-19 infections hit yet another new peak of 438 infections per 100,000 people, while the Robert Koch Institute (RKI) reported a record-breaking 76,000 new infections within a day. In the worst-hit region of Saxony, the 7-day incidence recently topped 1,000 per 100,000 people." I'm assuming that 438 is for 7 days, or in other words approximately 63 cases per 100,000 per day. I however get a lessor number for the USA. For the week of November 15th, 2021 the World Health Organization's website reports 673,672 Covid-19 cases in the USA, or 96,239 per day. 96,239/330,000,000 (population of the US) x 100,000 = 29.2 cases per day. Which is less than half of your report of 64 cases per 100,000. Did you just make a math error, or intentionally report the wrong number in hopes I wouldn't actually check? Regardless, Germany is now experiencing Covid-19 rates more that twice the US; 63 cases per 100,000 in Germany vs. 29 cases per 100,000 in the USA."Calling the current situation in Germany a ‘national emergency’, German Health Minister Jens Spahn claimed that the incoming government was doing too little, too late to try and stem the tide. “We must stop this wave now,” he warned." If I recall, I warned you over 12 months ago not to be too enamored with Germany's performance. That the limited number of total infections for Germany really meant they hadn't really experienced Covid-19. By locking down their society they had only delayed their day of reckoning. It appears I was correct, not that you will ever admit it.
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Post by 00hmh on Nov 27, 2021 20:14:48 GMT -6
The US average currently is 64 cases per 100,000. Putting cases in terms of per 100,000 is a good way to quantify things. ....If I recall, I warned you over 12 months ago not to be too enamored with Germany's performance. That the limited number of total infections for Germany really meant they hadn't really experienced Covid-19. By locking down their society they had only delayed their day of reckoning. It appears I was correct, not that you will ever admit it. NO. You are comparing apples and oranges to look at the comparison a year ago and assume the same factors today.
The numbers 12 months ago when you made your errant prediction were before widespread vaccination in either country and numbers today are not comparable to numbers a year ago with delta variation having emerged. Vaccination counts...
Mostly the numbers then showed excellent mitigation, compared to the US. Today it shows delta variation is more easily transmitted and that Germany is a bit ahead of the delta surge in winter weather. Germany has no warm weather states for example.
Note also that Germany (and NY) are treating the same trends seriously while US red states are unlikely to do so quickly. And are handicapped by low vax rates.
The easiest site for comparison which shows graphic trends over a year is found here:
When you go into a country (or US state) there is a place on the graphic display to show "per 100, 000 population rather than absolute numbers which is the default display.
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Post by 00hmh on Nov 27, 2021 20:17:25 GMT -6
Not conclusive with small sample but see:
How immunity compares seems to be unclear, and basically irrelevant. Bottom line is that vaccination has very little downside and confers super immunity to those previously infected. Almost all evidence supports the general rule that it is poor policy to avoid vaccination.
New variants may make vaccine less effective, but less effective is better than no protection.
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Post by 00hmh on Nov 28, 2021 21:54:43 GMT -6
Florida 6 cases / 100,000 New York 34 cases / 100,000 Michigan 82 cases / 100,000 It appears we have a Blue State problem with the spread of Covid-19. Indiana last week over 80 cases per 100k population estimated. Ohio over 100 estimated... Utah...
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Post by bsutrack on Nov 28, 2021 23:29:38 GMT -6
Putting cases in terms of per 100,000 is a good way to quantify things. ....If I recall, I warned you over 12 months ago not to be too enamored with Germany's performance. That the limited number of total infections for Germany really meant they hadn't really experienced Covid-19. By locking down their society they had only delayed their day of reckoning. It appears I was correct, not that you will ever admit it. NO. You are comparing apples and oranges to look at the comparison a year ago and assume the same factors today.
The numbers 12 months ago when you made your errant prediction were before widespread vaccination in either country and numbers today are not comparable to numbers a year ago with delta variation having emerged. Vaccination counts...
OK, then explain Sweden today. The week of November 15th (last week for which a full data set is available) Sweden had 6,668 Covid-19 cases for their population of 10.35 million, or 9 cases per 100,000. Directly north of Germany, same general climate, pretty much apples to apples yet doing much better than Germany at 63 cases per 100,000. Sweden did it right. No lockdowns of their society. No crushing of their economy. Developed herd immunity supplemented by vaccination (which is a component of herd immunity) when that came available. What the USA should have done if Trump hadn't listened to the advice of that idiot Fauci. I do have a question and I haven't seen it answered anywhere. What percentage of cases currently are unvaccinated vs breakthroughs of folks vaccinated? Just judging from high profile people such as professional athletes (other than Aaron Rodgers) who keep testing positive but claim they are vaccinated, the percentage of breakthroughs must be relatively high.
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Post by 00hmh on Nov 29, 2021 6:10:21 GMT -6
Sweden:
1. Is a country with much different health profile. Fewer vulnerable. VERY unlike the US. Or any US state.
2. Did lock down selectively during past surge
3. Did not do particularly well with vulnerable population.
4 Oh, one other thing Has almost 90% of population with one shot. Almost 80% vax rate.
5. Active effort to get boosters.
6. Have lagged but not avoided European trends.
Public health officials are currently warning about a coming infection rate increase. Unlike red states here are very much concerned and taking public health seriously.
Except for disinformation and lack of context, and wilful or gullible ignorance of it, you make a good point that Sweden is different. An outlier in important ways.
Which US states mirror their demographic differences and make their experience remotely relevant for our policy?
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Post by 00hmh on Nov 29, 2021 6:16:15 GMT -6
Numerous studies show those with boosters or recent vax have many fewer infections.
But delta is different, more transmissable. Those previously vaccinated OR infected are now more at risk than expected. Meaning we probably need boosters AND more mitigation over the next 6-8 weeks.
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Post by 00hmh on Nov 29, 2021 9:43:08 GMT -6
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Post by bsutrack on Nov 29, 2021 23:22:17 GMT -6
Sweden: 1. Is a country with much different health profile. Fewer vulnerable. VERY unlike the US. Or any US state. 2. Did lock down selectively during past surge 3. Did not do particularly well with vulnerable population. 4 Oh, one other thing Has almost 90% of population with one shot. Almost 80% vax rate. 5. Active effort to get boosters. 6. Have lagged but not avoided European trends. Public health officials are currently warning about a coming infection rate increase. Unlike red states here are very much concerned and taking public health seriously. Except for disinformation and lack of context, and wilful or gullible ignorance of it, you make a good point that Sweden is different. An outlier in important ways. Which US states mirror their demographic differences and make their experience remotely relevant for our policy? While we are cherry picking articles to support our stance: www.dw.com/en/opinion-sweden-continues-to-stand-out-on-covid-19-strategy/a-59353963Highlights of the article linked above: "There were no lockdowns or steep fines for violations, as in other countries, since that just didn't fit the Swedish model of leaving it to citizens to take responsibility for themselves." This mirrors the US Red States stance on personal freedom as opposed to edicts from a unelected Washington Bureaucrats. "At first, Sweden's scientists reassured the population that it was unlikely that the pandemic would spread in the sparsely populated country. Restaurants, schools and shops remained open. But the virus did not stop at Sweden's borders. It spread, as it had all over the world, especially in nursing homes where older residents were vulnerable. The infection and death rates were many times higher than in neighboring Nordic countries." Two parallels here to the US. Red States for the most part kept their restaurants, schools, and shops open while their infection rates did indeed track higher than neighboring Blue States. Blue States such as New York, New Jersey, and Michigan forced infected older nursing home residents back into nursing homes that weren't prepared to handle them greatly increasing their fatalities. "But, what was surprising was that this failure did not undermine the authority of Sweden's experts. Instead, they questioned and still continue to doubt the advice of the World Health Organization (WHO) that wearing a masks that covers the nose and mouth protects against the coronavirus." Again notice the parallel to those in the US Red States not wanting to fall inline with edicts of unelected Washington Bureaucrats.
"Now the Swedes, like the Danes and the Norwegians, are lifting almost all coronavirus restrictions. The experts justify it by pointing to the high vaccination rate, especially among the older population. In recent months, anyone who wanted to be vaccinated could do so easily. Those who still held didn't get the shot were considered responsible for their own fate." The last sentence: "those who still held didn't get the shot were considered responsible for their own fate", mirrors the attitude of the Conservatives and Libertarians that dominate the Legislatures of Red States.
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Post by bsutrack on Nov 29, 2021 23:32:38 GMT -6
Numerous studies show those with boosters or recent vax have many fewer infections. But delta is different, more transmissable. Those previously vaccinated OR infected are now more at risk than expected. Meaning we probably need boosters AND more mitigation over the next 6-8 weeks. I probably wasn't clear on what I was driving at on this one. I'll give it a second try. I constantly see stories about vaccinated folks who still get Covid-19. For example, the Chicago Bulls recently loss their starting Center for a week due to testing positive for Covid-19 even though he was fully vaccinated. I've have never seen a CDC statistic on what percentage of current cases are such breakthrough cases. Is it 10%, 20%, or more? On the other hand, I seldom see stories about folks getting Covid-19 a second time. It does happen, but seems to be a rarity. Another stat the CDC doesn't seem to track. I view the large number of breakthrough cases vs. small number of second time infections of Covid-19 as indirect evidence of natural immunity being superior to vaccination induced protection.
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Post by 00hmh on Nov 29, 2021 23:50:43 GMT -6
None of the points made in my post above are challenged.
The application of Swedish policy in red states simply does not wash.
Instead of posting political philosophy look at the facts for red state results where vax rate is low.
Which red state is similar in health demographics and vax rate?
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