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Post by 00hmh on Jan 3, 2022 9:11:51 GMT -6
The shame here is that since June when vaccines were fully available to most, we have had 250,000 deaths. Almost 200,000 were among those not vaccinated. Despite the most vulnerable mostly being in the vaccinated group, the 30%+ of the population not vaccinated are making up 80%+ of the casualties.
If you look at all cases and sort out all severe illness the disparity is actually slightly worse.
Where do you get those numbers? They are published in a number of places.
Very easy to read here:
If you just don't want to trust the NYT, you can find total deaths easily enough many places.
Deaths sorted by vaccination status tracked by CDC here:
You can get the figures in a spreadsheet if you dig into the data sources, or make your own estimate from graphic display.
State health officials often report their results by vaccination status Two easy to read sources popped up on a fast google search:
The numbers are well known but kind of numbing I agree.
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Post by 00hmh on Jan 4, 2022 16:12:32 GMT -6
Meanwhile the legislature debates making lack of vaccination a protected class free from "discrimination."
What other violation of public safety measures will they next make a protected class?
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Post by 00hmh on Jan 4, 2022 16:52:33 GMT -6
Unfortunately it seems to produce multiple times as many cases.
Fortunately we have a lot of people vaccinated. We'd be in great shape with 80%+ vax rate.
Unfortunately the rate of infection is so fast that hospitals are in danger short term.
We have to hang on, try to slow it as much as possible. Mask up and get people vaccinated soon as possible.
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Post by bleadingcardwhite on Jan 4, 2022 18:59:31 GMT -6
Meanwhile the legislature debates making lack of vaccination a protected class free from "discrimination."
What other violation of public safety measures will they next make a protected class?
I know I will be ok and receive treatment… if something happens that I have to go to the hospital, I will just tell them I am transgender, then I become a “protected class” For the record the idea of “protected classes” is total bullshit and a cop out from any serious argument that liberals make, when they have no evidence…. |
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Post by 00hmh on Jan 4, 2022 19:35:36 GMT -6
There is a clause in the Constitution guaranteeing "Equal Protection" of the law. After the 14th Amendment was passed that was interpreted "strictly" for Race, Religion and National Origin. Strict scrutiny meant the statute violated the Constitution if it did not have a VERY important reason. Those were the original "protected" classes. I think a good idea.
Other than those 3 classes just about any half ass reason would allow a state statute to discriminate. Otherwise you could never have a statute at all. Every statute discriminates. (fast drivers discriminated against for example)
Gender cases were held to deserve "intermediate" scrutiny. There had to be a a better reason than normal to discriminate. Most gender discrimination is actually based on statutes establishing that "stricter" scrutiny, and it is not Constitutional. Women are not a Constitutionally protected class.
The question here is a legislative wrong headed view that vaccination is NEVER a good reason, and only the legislature can decide if it is. This will make fast response to a case where it is needed impossible. And just incidentally cripple pandemic response potentially.
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Post by bsutrack on Jan 4, 2022 21:06:51 GMT -6
Meanwhile the legislature debates making lack of vaccination a protected class free from "discrimination."
What other violation of public safety measures will they next make a protected class?
I'm not so worried about protected classes. I'm more worried about discrimination of testing and treatment. For example, if you live in the Blue State of New York and are white, you are discriminated against in getting tested for Covid-19: nypost.com/2022/01/01/nyc-admits-to-prioritizing-race-in-distributing-covid-tests/Or, if you live in Red States such as Florida the supply of monoclonal antibodies is limited by the Joe Biden Administration. thehill.com/policy/healthcare/588020-desantis-calls-for-states-to-be-allowed-to-buy-monoclonal-antibody"The governor (DeSantis) said during a press conference in Fort Lauderdale that the state is waiting to obtain enough doses to open five to 10 more monoclonal antibody treatment sites. But with the federal government in “control” of the supply, that plan is “all contingent on the federal government sending the doses we need,” he said." Monoclonal antibodies have been around for over 12 months now and yet the Joe Biden Administration can't supply enough of them. Of course part of the problem is the first 9 months of his presidency he refused to acknowledge the treatments worked. He rather ignored them. His endgame was to have everyone vaccinated hence no treatments like monoclonal antibodies would be needed. How is that working for him? |
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Post by bsutrack on Jan 4, 2022 21:18:03 GMT -6
In OO's prefect world everyone would be vaccinated against Covid-19. It would look something like the Princess Elisabeth Polar Station in Antarctica. nationalpost.com/news/world/covid-outbreak-at-remote-antarctic-station-among-fully-vaccinated-researchers-like-horror-movie-plotThe Belgium run station has 25 staff. According to the article: "All 25 researchers were fully vaccinated and one had a booster shot. Before leaving for the station, they had PCR tests in Belgium two hours before flying to South Africa. In Cape Town they quarantined for 10 days and took another PCR test. A further test was needed when leaving for Antarctica and a final one five days after that. One person tested positive seven days after arriving at the station on Dec 14. The individual was placed in isolation but tests revealed two others had caught the virus. All three left the station on Dec 23 but the virus has continued to spread. Now two thirds of the 25 staff have Covid-19. The outbreak took hold despite all staff passing multiple PCR tests, quarantining and living in one of the most remote places in the world.It is thought to be the omicron variant because that is responsible for 99 per cent of infections in South Africa." |
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Post by 00hmh on Jan 4, 2022 23:17:40 GMT -6
Your logic seems to be that if your armor is not perfect, don't wear it. If a weapon doesn't always work, don't ever use it?
What result do you think if they had not been vaccinated?
Close quarters, impossible to effectively quarantine.
They did their best. Thank goodness all were required to be vax.
This story makes my point about the danger of quick spread. And the necessity of vax.
Testing is not the main defense. It helps slow spread in some cases by keeping an infectious person from spreading.
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Post by 00hmh on Jan 4, 2022 23:29:23 GMT -6
BTW, the monoclonal antibody treatment predominantly in use in FL doesn't work against Omicron...
His strategy has failed as FL is maybe now the hottest hot spot.
Thankfully the most vulnerable are 90%+ vax in FL.
Their hospitals will be challenged by even so in the next few weeks.
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Post by sweep on Jan 6, 2022 12:16:20 GMT -6
Your logic seems to be that if your armor is not perfect, don't wear it. I don't see where he said they shouldn't have been vaccinated. |
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Post by JacksonStreetElite on Jan 6, 2022 12:32:08 GMT -6
Your logic seems to be that if your armor is not perfect, don't wear it. I don't see where he said they shouldn't have been vaccinated. Wait. Hold on. Are you saying 00 used a straw man? That is unbelievable. I’m sure given his strict intellectual honesty and reputation for integrity he will immediately remedy this honest mistake. I’m double sure that he wont move the goalposts. |
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Post by 00hmh on Jan 6, 2022 15:29:02 GMT -6
Your logic seems to be that if your armor is not perfect, don't wear it. I don't see where he said they shouldn't have been vaccinated. No. But neither did I make any bid deal about testing being foolproof. I didn't really make any substantial mention of testing. So what was his point?
And he's wrong. He is arguing that because the tests didn't work in this case they are worthless and should be ignored.
On that point, testing is one tool. Masking and distancing is a tool. The traveling party was going to be in a situation (confined in close quarters with a group) where distancing was impossible and masking not likely to work well. It has not worked with Omicron on cruises which are similar to this case. Probably means we should not cruise...and not allow vulnerable people to cruise,
In this case for the fast moving Omicron virus Tests don't stop it only slow it. Especially when we don't have enough tests, and it develops and spreads too fast to be easily detected. It can be used to slow the spread by giving people data and keeping them out of circulation, but that is not and no one thinks it is a shield.
It was a good idea to test, didn't work, but stupid NOT to try it. What was his point?
For this group which stopped in South Africa and no doubt were infected in the course of transport, by someone outside the group, the testing failed, it really proves nothing about testing as a valid tool or indicates we should not use it.
As for vaccination, this incident shows the usefulness of vaccination and makes the anti vax crowd look really stupid.
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Post by 00hmh on Jan 6, 2022 15:29:26 GMT -6
I don't see where he said they shouldn't have been vaccinated. Wait. Hold on. Are you saying 00 used a straw man? That is unbelievable. I’m sure given his strict intellectual honesty and reputation for integrity he will immediately remedy this honest mistake. I’m double sure that he wont move the goalposts. See above. |
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Post by sweep on Jan 6, 2022 16:25:59 GMT -6
I don't see where he said they shouldn't have been vaccinated. No. But neither did I make any bid deal about testing being foolproof. I didn't really make any substantial mention of testing. So what was his point?
And he's wrong. He is arguing that because the tests didn't work in this case they are worthless and should be ignored.
On that point, testing is one tool. Masking and distancing is a tool. The traveling party was going to be in a situation (confined in close quarters with a group) where distancing was impossible and masking not likely to work well. It has not worked with Omicron on cruises which are similar to this case. Probably means we should not cruise...and not allow vulnerable people to cruise,
In this case for the fast moving Omicron virus Tests don't stop it only slow it. Especially when we don't have enough tests, and it develops and spreads too fast to be easily detected. It can be used to slow the spread by giving people data and keeping them out of circulation, but that is not and no one thinks it is a shield.
It was a good idea to test, didn't work, but stupid NOT to try it. What was his point?
For this group which stopped in South Africa and no doubt were infected in the course of transport, by someone outside the group, the testing failed, it really proves nothing about testing as a valid tool or indicates we should not use it.
As for vaccination, this incident shows the usefulness of vaccination and makes the anti vax crowd look really stupid.
Testing wasn't the central topic of his post, so I have no idea what your response does except attempt to redirect the theme in a different direction. Thanks for the laugh, Human Garbage. |
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Post by 00hmh on Jan 6, 2022 17:10:42 GMT -6
No. But neither did I make any bid deal about testing being foolproof. I didn't really make any substantial mention of testing. So what was his point?
As for vaccination, this incident shows the usefulness of vaccination and makes the anti vax crowd look really stupid. Testing wasn't the central topic of his post, so I have no idea what your response does except attempt to redirect the theme in a different direction. Thanks for the laugh, Human Garbage. Can you read? What do you say the post IS about if it isn't mostly about testing?
There were vaccinated people where vaccination failed when exposed to Omicron, but mostly about a failure of the testing with the Antarctic expedition. It would look something like the Princess Elisabeth Polar Station in Antarctica. nationalpost.com/news/world/covid-outbreak-at-remote-antarctic-station-among-fully-vaccinated-researchers-like-horror-movie-plotThe Belgium run station has 25 staff. According to the article: "All 25 researchers were fully vaccinated and one had a booster shot. Before leaving for the station, they had PCR tests in Belgium two hours before flying to South Africa. In Cape Town they quarantined for 10 days and took another PCR test. A further test was needed when leaving for Antarctica and a final one five days after that. One person tested positive seven days after arriving at the station on Dec 14. The individual was placed in isolation but tests revealed two others had caught the virus. All three left the station on Dec 23 but the virus has continued to spread. Now two thirds of the 25 staff have Covid-19. The outbreak took hold despite all staff passing multiple PCR tests, quarantining and living in one of the most remote places in the world.It is thought to be the omicron variant because that is responsible for 99 per cent of infections in South Africa." What do you see here that is NOT about testing? ONE line refers to vaccination. 13 lines is about failure of testing.
Nobody says vaccination is 100%. Nobody thinks it is. But it is by far the best bet. AND vaccination works VERY well, but admittedly by everyone, less well against Omicron. It does prevent severe illness very well even then.
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