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Post by Lurkin McGurkin on Jul 17, 2020 13:52:28 GMT -6
No, it was necessary. People need to earn a living. And people need to live instead of just sitting around.
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Post by 00hmh on Jul 17, 2020 14:48:49 GMT -6
No, it was necessary. People need to earn a living. And people need to live instead of just sitting around. Not safe in some states. That now seems clear. The WH guidelines were not met for most states. Few states have met staging metrics they themselves created. That is hasty. Probably foolish. The Ga. Governor now is in denial about masks. What is that?
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Post by BSU Card Fan in AZ on Jul 17, 2020 16:28:17 GMT -6
Not in denial, just not letting communities mandate wearing. Not sure why he wouldn’t at least let each make a decision. Enforcement is always an issue. Hopefully businesses can set rules. Just silly not to wear one when around others.
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Post by lmills72 on Jul 17, 2020 17:09:33 GMT -6
Controlling the spread of the virus was necessary.
Reopening timelines were flexible based on virus control.
It doesn't do a lot of good to reopen when it just results in more illness, leading to more severe or renewed restrictions.
It doesn't do a lot of good to tell people to start living their lives normally when they are afraid to do so.
Those decisions don't get the economy back on track.
The reopening bandwagon clearly put the cart before the horse.
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Post by cardfan on Jul 17, 2020 17:25:21 GMT -6
Hoping people will be responsible on their own hasn’t worked so great either.
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Post by cbcjanney on Jul 17, 2020 21:52:22 GMT -6
Boy I know it's such a divisive issue, and everybody will have their own stories to tell and cases that have hit home (I've read some of them here in other threads) but here's what the fearful faction is up against in terms of persuasion for shutdowns/masks/etc in the areas I'm most familiar with:
Here in Hamilton County Indiana (population 360K) there were 90-something deaths in the first 60 days, but have been less than a dozen in the last 6 weeks (about 1 death per 33000 people). No evidence whatsoever that opening things up 6-8 weeks ago caused any spike or surge or anything that changed the trajectory of a declining number of deaths. The Fishers Health Dept finally released information that approx 30 of those approx 100 deaths in the county were in Fishers - with zero deaths of the 30 being under age 60. I have much family in Evansville, with 3 relatives there in nursing homes plus 1 more in a home here in Carmel. From the 4 counties in far SW Indiana (Posey, Vanderburgh, Gibson, Pike) there have been 8 deaths so far to date out of approx 272K population (1 death per 34000 people). Until about three weeks ago, Covid was not in the top 10 causes of death since March 15th in the counties as more people had died from homicide, house fire, drug overdose, auto accident, & suicide in addition to the myriad of health-related natural causes. All of the nursing homes we have family at have lamented that all of their patients have mentally declined several notches being quarantined and not allowed visitors, and while everything is being done to prevent covid from entering the facilities, residents are dying a much more slow, painful, isolated death as it is now, and many will never return to the same if this ever ends.
I personally know 2 people who've tested covid-positive, one age 50 and one age 20. The age 50 guy took several weeks to recover from his March 14 diagnosis but has been fine since early April. The age 20 nephew never really felt bad during his 2-week quarantine and was back to normal soon after. Neither person had the death sentence the media makes it out to be. In fact you have a really hard time finding any media coverage of any person that is positive but exhibits few symptoms and fully recovers quickly. How many athletes (pro/college/highschool in any sport) have been reported in the media as positive vs how many athletes have died? It's always a "story" when they contract the virus but never newsworthy when they recover as the super-majority do...
While I try to respect others' positions and try not to act tyrannical with my position to others, my personal feeling is that I have the demographics such that I'm not afraid of contracting the virus, and assuming I'm able to get tested regularly and have so far have had no positive tests then I'm not in danger of passing anything to others. So why do I need to wear a mask? Unfortunately I do have some early hearing loss and I'll admit it's quite frustrating that I can't hear people well who are wearing masks - not only does everything sound mumbled, I can't read their lips either which normally helps immensely, not to mention wearing the masks personally interferes with hearing aids being worn. So unfortunately (and I realize I'm in the minority) as the country moves soon toward mandatory masks which we of course know only the already law-abiding faction will be compliant in (those who currently don't speed, don't drink or text & drive, don't cheat on taxes) I'll be the otherwise healthy one now staying indoors.
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Post by williamtsherman on Jul 18, 2020 7:08:05 GMT -6
I don't know why yo bothered to post all that. All your thoughts and your positions on Covid should be determined by whether you do/don't like Trump
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Post by 00hmh on Jul 18, 2020 9:13:48 GMT -6
Boy I know it's such a divisive issue..... While I try to respect others' positions and try not to act tyrannical with my position to others, my personal feeling is that I have the demographics such that I'm not afraid of contracting the virus, and assuming I'm able to get tested regularly and have so far have had no positive tests then I'm not in danger of passing anything to others. So why do I need to wear a mask? That you cannot hear well doesn't seem to me a good reason YOU should not wear a mask unless you are wearing it over your ears.
But other than that is there a reason for you to wear a mask? There is a bigger set of problems with your argument.
Masks are not about protecting you but protecting the community. Your not being scared of the virus does not prevent you from having an asymptomatic case and passing it on. That is why you should wear a mask. Your demographics do not mean you cannot contract the virus but that is more likely to be asymptomatic or a mild case in the event you do.
Frequent testing for everyone is desirable, but impossible and besides is a lot more expensive solution than wearing a mask. Assuming you can do this, your being tested regularly(and very frequently) still means a lag of potentially long time before you would know if you were positive. In that time you could easily be spreading the virus.
If you disagree about the power of masks to protect the community, it is hard to explain how virtually every country in the world who wears masks is doing a better job than we are at containing the virus. How the few states like Connecticut and New York and few others who are strict about masks are doing better than the rest of the states.
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Post by cardfan on Jul 18, 2020 9:59:28 GMT -6
Ok, I’m gonna rant. I guess just don’t understand why only in the US are steps taken to mitigate a pandemic considered by so many considered to be a no go. Wanna open things up and get back to normal? Wear a damn mask for a couple months. It doesn’t seem all that difficult and personally I don’t think I’m giving up my rights and liberty. I mean, I can still go anywhere that’s open and operating, I can still go to work (so thankful for that.). I can still breathe. And bring in a high risk category, if wearing a mask means I DON’T have to stay at home with no contact outside the house, lose my job, etc. then I have zero problem wearing a son of a bitching mask. I don’t give a shit who’s the ruling party. My family has to be very careful about it too because they fear being the virus home on me. Or my in laws who are elderly. I can’t go visit my mother because she’s locked down in assisted living. I’m ok with that because she’s being kept SAFE. I will never understand how trying to protect others is such a negative in this country. No other country has put up a fight to NOT try to get this thing her control like we have. I don’t get it. If anyone is worried about “their rights” just quit wearing shirts or shoes or pants into an establishment. I mean you gave up your rights. Shirts don’t work! Quit wearing a stupid seatbelt. Freedom! Drive drunk. The gubmint too little away our rights to hurt ourselves or OTHERS.
The lack of consideration for others and only caring out ourselves is evidently very American at this point. We actually did this in 1918 too with the anti mask leagues then. How’d that work out for us?
When I see non medical/science people post things in Facebook it twitter like “masks don’t work! I ain’t wearing no mask. They’re just tying to take our rights!” I just shake my head in disbelief. Somehow our medical professionals have been wearing masks that don’t work for a long time and that’s clearly tyranny....
Yeah I’m sick of this and I’m in favor of whatever it takes to get on the other side of this. (But then once there’s a vaccine the anti vaxers will kick in).
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Post by JacksonStreetElite on Jul 19, 2020 16:54:50 GMT -6
I’ll chime in.
You wear a mask for the same reason you cover your mouth when you sneeze or cough. Maybe it has some benefit for keeping bad stuff from coming in, but the primary benefit is limiting the radius of the bad stuff going out. So I’m pro-mask.
That being said, this is supposed to be a free country, so I oppose mask mandates. The responsibility for health falls in the individual. So if you’re in a place where nobody is wearing a mask, you should leave instead of demanding the government mandate your desires.
Even though I don't want to see mask mandates, I do think they are probably constitutional under the state’s general police powers. It’s more of a “not every good idea should be a law” position.
I’m also pro-private property. So if the store mandates masks put on a mask or don’t go in the store.
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Post by 00hmh on Jul 19, 2020 19:08:44 GMT -6
So if I am near you and you are creating danger,possibly mortal, you have "freedom" to do so? You owe no duty to others greater than your "right" to create danger?
When the state exercises due process to forbid it?
Your freedom ends at my nose so to speak.
If you have no right to harm me, why do I have to leave? You stay?
Wear a mask or leave, your choice. That seems a better rule than my being forced to leave so you can violate your duty to others and continue endangering others.
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Post by lmills72 on Jul 19, 2020 20:48:25 GMT -6
You can continue to leave mask use up to the individual but the problem with that as I see it is that most everybody now would seem to like to get things back to normal ... maybe nobody more than businesses.
So if you want business to get back to normal, you have to make people feel safer getting out and doing things. But if you leave mask wearing up to the individual ...
... You've got your relatively young demographic that statistics seem to show handle this virus without much fanfare in most cases. Maybe they don't feel the need to wear masks. But because they handle the virus without fanfare they might be asymptomatic, yet still have the virus and be very capable of spreading it to ...
... the older people who actually have money to spend. Those folks may not be in the real danger zone area of 60+, but they're old enough to have many of the co-morbidities that can lead to a severe case of COVID (COPD 15+ million Americans, Asthma 20+ million, Hypertension 116+ million, Chronic kidney disease 37 million, Type 2 diabetes 34 million). Those people - the ones with money - are the ones you want out in your stores.
But if they have to face a bunch of unmasked people every time they go out it's not a very healthy or welcoming environment.
More stores are finally getting that message and mandating masks inside their walls. Hopefully it's a step forward.
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Post by lmills72 on Jul 19, 2020 21:24:34 GMT -6
Here in Hamilton County Indiana (population 360K) there were 90-something deaths in the first 60 days, but have been less than a dozen in the last 6 weeks (about 1 death per 33000 people). No evidence whatsoever that opening things up 6-8 weeks ago caused any spike or surge or anything that changed the trajectory of a declining number of deaths. The Fishers Health Dept finally released information that approx 30 of those approx 100 deaths in the county were in Fishers - with zero deaths of the 30 being under age 60. I have much family in Evansville, with 3 relatives there in nursing homes plus 1 more in a home here in Carmel. From the 4 counties in far SW Indiana (Posey, Vanderburgh, Gibson, Pike) there have been 8 deaths so far to date out of approx 272K population (1 death per 34000 people). Until about three weeks ago, Covid was not in the top 10 causes of death since March 15th in the counties as more people had died from homicide, house fire, drug overdose, auto accident, & suicide in addition to the myriad of health-related natural causes. All of the nursing homes we have family at have lamented that all of their patients have mentally declined several notches being quarantined and not allowed visitors, and while everything is being done to prevent covid from entering the facilities, residents are dying a much more slow, painful, isolated death as it is now, and many will never return to the same if this ever ends. I have to wonder why you include Pike County in your SW Indiana calculations while ignoring Warrick County, especially since Pike County is not adjacent to the major population center in Vanderburgh but Warrick County is. Perhaps it's because Warrick County, which is a major bedroom community for Evansville (and has a population on its own that rivals the total populations of Gibson, Pike and Posey) has had 29 deaths. Yeah, that's just not as tidy. I also find it interesting that there have been more deaths in those counties due to homicide and house fire. Really? You may be right, but if there have been 9+ homicides and 9+ house fire deaths during this time, I don't think I'll be visiting anytime soon. I mean the lack of COVID is nice, but I tend to try to avoid killers and arsonists, too. You are correct that the death trajectory has been in decline in the areas you mention and in the state overall, especially in the more rural areas. But not everywhere. Certainly not across the country, but also not even everywhere in Indiana. Since May 18, which was two weeks after the state began to reopen, Elkhart County's death rate has tripled. Howard County's has close to quadrupled. And it also just comes down to what is acceptable to people. From the time Indiana had its first COVID case to that May 18 date - in that 10-week period - Indiana had 1,787 deaths from the virus. In the nine weeks since then we have had 842 deaths. 842 is certainly a significant reduction from the first 10 weeks, but it's still 842 people. Is that acceptable to everyone?
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Post by rmcalhoun on Jul 19, 2020 23:10:07 GMT -6
This weekend I'm back in another "hotspot".. Redneck Pigeon Forge Tennessee. I was here a couple months ago and no one was wearing a mask. This trip many more people are wearing masks. This place is packed though. The county is supposed to be mandatory masks everywhere inside. So we have been abiding. I am not for mandates but I do not feel my rights are in jeopardy because I've been told to wear a mask. Even with the mandate though everywhere you go you see people inside with out masks. It is not being enforced at all. I guess my thing is if wearing a mask indoors or while in close proximity to others helps in someway then what does it hurt to wear it.
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Post by lmills72 on Jul 20, 2020 5:09:28 GMT -6
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