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Post by rmcalhoun on Apr 22, 2021 17:30:46 GMT -6
No I know he talks about culture, but people are choosing to mis/interpret what he said to pile on. Good defense, competitiveness, and a desire to always get better are the things I've heard him say about culture. Not don't try to take advantage of NCAA rules to get exposure for your future. But that's what it is right now. You can still get lucky with majorly under-recruited Jason Prestons, or really small, great guards, or second chance guys, but mid-majors are in deep shit right now. So while I hear the thguys on here who are just frustrated as fuck about not winning, and would like to see that myself, I guess I want to be able to root for the guys that want to be at BSU and who play hard. And there have been plenty. I'm assuming Whitford will be fired eventually, but the same challenges will face the next guy. agree with that almost 100% ncaa with tge portal is akin to wild west. Hired guns
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Post by williamtsherman on Apr 22, 2021 18:05:20 GMT -6
The phrase "next man up" carries some weight in an environment of consistent winning through time, with roster turnover. As does a coach's talk of the "culture" of his program. In a situation like BSU basketball, both phrases are just a bad joke and deserving of ridicule.
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Post by sag on Apr 22, 2021 18:12:45 GMT -6
Fair enough, friend. An old man desperately trying to grasp on to a world that has passed him by is worthy not of ridicule, but of compassion. I feel your pain, dude.
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Post by williamtsherman on Apr 22, 2021 18:33:08 GMT -6
I'm afraid I grasp the situation of BSU basketball all too well. Not sure your grasp is that solid.
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Post by cardfan on Apr 22, 2021 19:22:33 GMT -6
Whitford has had plenty of time to build a winner. Winning as in something of note in the postseason. He’s only managed 2 MAC tourney wins. His claims of success are west division championships and that’s it. Everything else he talks about is window dressing. At some point we have to expect more than just happy talk and platitudes. For whatever the reasons and however you want to rationalize it our best players left as soon as this season ended. I think the lack of real success (“nearly making the ncaa tourney” is not a thing), lack of enough impact players, lack of player development (Zach Gunn was supposed to be a “big time” recruit), lack of effective bigs on the roster, annual excuses for why we come up short, etc. etc. and I think yeah it adds up to many of us calling bullshit on all of whits talk of culture and process and player development. Serious question: what exactly is the culture? What does Whit mean? In what ways does he connect with a: the types of recruits that could put him over the top, b) the fans/alumni who desperately want a program to back?
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Post by bsutrack on Apr 22, 2021 19:37:14 GMT -6
It's all part of the "process". A bit like Bill Murray in Ground Hog Day, Coleman, Ish, Walton, and Hazen had all been around long enough to know what next season at BSU would be like; .500 season plus or minus a game or two, first round loss in the MAC Tournament, and no post season NCAA or NIT tournament invitation. Like the Bill Murray character, they decided to do something to break the cycle and free themselves from the nightmare. Remember all the ways the Bill Murray character, after he had lived through the cycle too many times, tried to kill himself just to get out? Same thing for Coleman, Ish, Walton, and even Hazen. It's just part of the "process".
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Post by JacksonStreetElite on Apr 22, 2021 20:04:43 GMT -6
It's all part of the "process". A bit like Bill Murray in Ground Hog Day, Coleman, Ish, Walton, and Hazen had all been around long enough to know what next season at BSU would be like; .500 season plus or minus a game or two, first round loss in the MAC Tournament, and no post season NCAA or NIT tournament invitation. Like the Bill Murray character, they decided to do something to break the cycle and free themselves from the nightmare. Remember all the ways the Bill Murray character, after he had lived through the cycle too many times, tried to kill himself just to get out? Same thing for Coleman, Ish, Walton, and even Hazen. It's just part of the "process". This is a better way of what I was trying to say that I dont fault KJ. I’m stuck here but he isn’t and it impacts him way more than me. The mass exodus this season is the players doing what the administration cant or wont - making a change.
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Post by realitycheck on Apr 22, 2021 20:17:49 GMT -6
Fair enough, friend. An old man desperately trying to grasp on to a world that has passed him by is worthy not of ridicule, but of compassion. I feel your pain, dude. What the hell does this even mean?
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Post by mattg on Apr 23, 2021 4:46:39 GMT -6
Why have we not heard from 00mh on this.. I am anxiously waiting his take on this Look back at my posts on KJ. He's what I expected from day 1. MAC starter who if he played D would be a key part of a good team. Only a star if he greatly improved shooting. My optimism about his future was tempered after watching practices and seeing his shooting form needed almost total makeover to be a good mid range jump shooter. Worse, his 3pfg efforts from a set position, despite coaching efforts, frustrated everyone. Never saw him hit 30% in a setting with defenders, or show ability to go from a shooting setup to really good drive to the basket. Would not be totally shocked to see him realize he needed that, and make the commitment to completely overhaul his shooting. But he has some limitations and I doubt his new coach will make the difference unless KJ changes. Could happen. But. Very probably the coach wants him for his existing strengths, more or less as he is, a good kid, a solid MAC starter with a role to play on a good team because of his athleticism. I don't see him as losing a big plus to our team next year. Yes, he'd help as an athlete, but he's not a leader, not a shooter, which we need from someone else. We've replaced him with a kid who has 2 years to play with some of the same strengths on offense, a little more strength, and hopefully a better jump shot... we've added a Freshman who is an athlete, a bit bigger. We'll succeed next year only if we can get a big man on the floor, and find another shooter. As good as I thought Coleman and Ish could be, filling in for those losses and the solid effort and play of Hazen are our problems next year. Orrrrrr we could have both KJ and Cochran on the team at the same time if we didn’t have a lame duck coach? I wonder if Cochran was only added because KJ was leaving.
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Post by 00hmh on Apr 23, 2021 6:12:07 GMT -6
Can't see playing both at the same time. Doubt we'd get a transfer in with similar offensive game if KJ was staying.
Need for outside shooting is more critical to me.
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Post by mattg on Apr 23, 2021 7:34:06 GMT -6
Can't see playing both at the same time. Doubt we'd get a transfer in with similar offensive game if KJ was staying. Need for outside shooting is more critical to me. I get your point, but if KJ and Cochran both have similar slashing-type scoring with relatively decent results, then why not see what both of them can do together on the court? Hard for the opposing defense to stop both of the guys possibly? My take might be of the minority viewpoint, but I would have liked to see both on the court together. KJ kind of proved that his height wasn’t going to stop him from getting to the basket offensively, looks like Cochran could be similar. I think the narrative of this type of scoring style being better suited to players who are taller can be skewed. If you can get to the rim and score consistently, I personally don’t care how tall you are. I just hope that your viewpoint isn’t one that is based upon filling 1 role for 1 player type. Like, we only need 1 player who is 6-10 with long arms and can block shots and rebound. We need multiples of this types of guys, just like we need multiples of guys who can get to the rim. That’s what I’m trying to convey.
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Post by sweep on Apr 23, 2021 7:41:24 GMT -6
Fair enough, friend. An old man desperately trying to grasp on to a world that has passed him by is worthy not of ridicule, but of compassion. I feel your pain, dude. Whitford isn't an old man struggling with the onset of dementia, he is a bloviating fraud struggling with his own incompetency and laziness.
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Post by 00hmh on Apr 23, 2021 7:46:56 GMT -6
Can't see playing both at the same time. Doubt we'd get a transfer in with similar offensive game if KJ was staying. Need for outside shooting is more critical to me. I get your point, but if KJ and Cochran both have similar slashing-type scoring with relatively decent results, then why not see what both of them can do together on the court? Hard for the opposing defense to stop both of the guys possibly? ...we need multiples of guys who can get to the rim. Maybe. Hard to have room in the lane without some outside shooting. We've lost a lot of that in Ish and Coleman. What we lost with KJ and is hard to replace is the jets he potentially had on the break.
Of course, we never got as much chance as we wanted to take advantage of that or of shooting 3's on the break, since we had a weakness blocking out and controlling our own glass.
Cochran may help on the boards as a 3G, but we need better rebounding and need shooting.
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Post by williamtsherman on Apr 23, 2021 9:39:10 GMT -6
Can't see playing both at the same time. Doubt we'd get a transfer in with similar offensive game if KJ was staying. Need for outside shooting is more critical to me. I get your point, but if KJ and Cochran both have similar slashing-type scoring with relatively decent results, then why not see what both of them can do together on the court? Hard for the opposing defense to stop both of the guys possibly? My take might be of the minority viewpoint, but I would have liked to see both on the court together. KJ kind of proved that his height wasn’t going to stop him from getting to the basket offensively, looks like Cochran could be similar. I think the narrative of this type of scoring style being better suited to players who are taller can be skewed. If you can get to the rim and score consistently, I personally don’t care how tall you are. I just hope that your viewpoint isn’t one that is based upon filling 1 role for 1 player type. Like, we only need 1 player who is 6-10 with long arms and can block shots and rebound. We need multiples of this types of guys, just like we need multiples of guys who can get to the rim. That’s what I’m trying to convey. Without any direct knowledge of Cochran's thinking, I can't imagine he would have come here if Walton was not transferring. Nor do I think there is any way you could have played them both together for any significant minutes. Because you are also going to have usually one of Huggins/Henrdriks and for that matter Acree on the floor which would make 3 who can't shoot a lick from outside, and you would be operating at a real disadvantage.
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Post by realitycheck on Apr 23, 2021 10:52:04 GMT -6
I'm still amazed that any ardent or even casual fan would be surprised at any of our players transferring. What is special about our program right now for players who've been here a while?
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