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Post by sweep on Aug 2, 2021 10:13:12 GMT -6
Interesting convo... What makes a scholarship worth it. Lets use Huggins as the example. After its all said and done will his scholarship make the time and Money invested into him worth it? No and it's part of the reason Whitford needs to quit redshirting guys and taking gambles on so many project players. Huggins is a guy who should not be taking up a scholarship for five years.
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SPARKS
Aug 2, 2021 10:36:27 GMT -6
Post by rmcalhoun on Aug 2, 2021 10:36:27 GMT -6
Id agree and even say his contributions up to this point could probably have been matched by a walk on
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SPARKS
Aug 2, 2021 11:50:27 GMT -6
Post by 00hmh on Aug 2, 2021 11:50:27 GMT -6
EVERY team gambles on scholarships, especially with big guys. At our level in the MAC you regularly see every team with 3 or 4 big guys on scholarship with 2 never contributing much. We did pretty well with Moses and Teague who each started 3 years, relatively productive. Any MAC team would have been happy to have them.
Huggy was a development player from day 1, not really at the level of many recruits in the MAC, although not by any means that unlike some others. When we signed him He was not expected to be much until last year, turns out not a huge success, sure. But if he is a solid starter even 1 year, in the rotation for two years, he is worth the scholarship.
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SPARKS
Aug 2, 2021 11:55:54 GMT -6
Post by rmcalhoun on Aug 2, 2021 11:55:54 GMT -6
EVERY team gambles on scholarships, especially with big guys. At our level in the MAC you regularly see every team with 3 or 4 big guys on scholarship with 2 never contributing much. We did pretty well with Moses and Teague who each started 3 years, relatively productive. Any MAC team would have been happy to have them. Huggy was a development player from day 1, not really at the level of many recruits in the MAC, although not by any means that unlike some others. When we signed him He was not expected to be much until last year, turns out not a huge success, sure. But if he is a solid starter even 1 year, in the rotation for two years, he is worth the scholarship. So you would say if he does not start or contribute more this year then the scholarship was not worth it
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SPARKS
Aug 2, 2021 12:28:46 GMT -6
Post by 00hmh on Aug 2, 2021 12:28:46 GMT -6
Id agree and even say his contributions up to this point could probably have been matched by a walk on You don't get walk on big guys though...
sweeps theory of not gambling on big guys and giving them some time, unless we are getting VERY good smaller players. I don't see how at this level you expect to avoid gambling some and hoping for some development.
I have less gripe than halftime with taking a big guy for 5 years to get 2. Much more gripe with our failing to recruit MORE big guys, gambling a little more often! I'd take two Huggy's and hope to get one that pans out. At worst you then always have a big body to put in. We have ended up forcing stretch 4 players to be stretch 5 even when we were NOT playing small ball... Sparks isn't a stretch anything, isn't a small ball player, maybe not "ideal" for that reason, but working hard and having that size, we can imagine him playing a lot of minutes in a year or two.
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SPARKS
Aug 2, 2021 12:40:26 GMT -6
Post by 00hmh on Aug 2, 2021 12:40:26 GMT -6
EVERY team gambles on scholarships, especially with big guys. At our level in the MAC you regularly see every team with 3 or 4 big guys on scholarship with 2 never contributing much. We did pretty well with Moses and Teague who each started 3 years, relatively productive. Any MAC team would have been happy to have them. Huggy was a development player from day 1, not really at the level of many recruits in the MAC, although not by any means that unlike some others. When we signed him He was not expected to be much until last year, turns out not a huge success, sure. But if he is a solid starter even 1 year, in the rotation for two years, he is worth the scholarship. So you would say if he does not start or contribute more this year then the scholarship was not worth it Not exactly. If you play poker and make a good bet, and it doesn't pay off, doesn't make it a bad bet...
Make the bet, you may need to plan on 5 years. You hope for more, sooner.
Sparks as a gamble sure feels like a better bet now than when we signed him, but he may need a red shirt, who knows? May pay off big while Huggy doesn't. Both kids did not get a look from many programs and were gambles.
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SPARKS
Aug 2, 2021 13:02:08 GMT -6
Post by rmcalhoun on Aug 2, 2021 13:02:08 GMT -6
So you would say if he does not start or contribute more this year then the scholarship was not worth it Not exactly. If you play poker and make a good bet, and it doesn't pay off, doesn't make it a bad bet...
Make the bet, you may need to plan on 5 years. You hope for more, sooner.
Sparks as a gamble sure feels like a better bet now than when we signed him, but he may need a red shirt, who knows? May pay off big while Huggy doesn't. Both kids did not get a look from many programs and were gambles.
I would say this you know when siging both huggie and Hendrix you were going to get a minimal return on Investment.. Anything Else was just hoping.. I can tell you right now and even when he signed that sparks could and will contribute as if not more than both combined
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SPARKS
Aug 2, 2021 14:51:59 GMT -6
via mobile
Post by 00hmh on Aug 2, 2021 14:51:59 GMT -6
Not sure about maximum possible. As seen at the time of signing both more in unknown category rather than low ceiling.
Huggy had more question marks. He had played low level competition, but good physical tools. Had not played much basketball. Skills were gamble for sure. But he is at "minimum" production level now, and if he's in the rotation a couple of years will not be a bad story, more than minimal.
Hendricks had skills. Higher ceiling.
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SPARKS
Aug 2, 2021 15:06:02 GMT -6
Post by sweep on Aug 2, 2021 15:06:02 GMT -6
Id agree and even say his contributions up to this point could probably have been matched by a walk on Sparks isn't a stretch anything, isn't a small ball player, maybe not "ideal" for that reason................
WE DON'T HAVE ANY SMALL BALL RECRUITS................
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Post by sweep on Aug 2, 2021 15:10:09 GMT -6
So you would say if he does not start or contribute more this year then the scholarship was not worth it If you play poker and make a good bet, and it doesn't pay off, doesn't make it a bad bet...
Neither Huggins nor Hendriks had any D1 offers other than Ball State. These were not "good bets". In poker you can bluff, basketball doesn't work that way.
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Post by sweep on Aug 2, 2021 15:20:55 GMT -6
As seen at the time of signing both more in unknown category rather than low ceiling. Yeah unknown to us, but Whitford knows exactly who and what each recruit is. The reason we have these guys is Whitford whiffed on all his other big man targets and was desperate to bring in someone. Oh and those other guys he whiffed on choose other mid-major schools, so stop the nonsense about needing to assume large risks at this level. In fact I would say these guys were perfectly known quantities, the market slotted them exactly where they should have been.
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SPARKS
Aug 2, 2021 15:22:40 GMT -6
via mobile
reevo likes this
Post by rmcalhoun on Aug 2, 2021 15:22:40 GMT -6
Another hypothetical... If you were a sports reporter writing about this upcoming season. What would you be pushing whit for info about? Jones and Wyndham pop into my mind instantly. Followed by how Thomas is doing and how is soukas s progressing.. I think we know what Luke and Cochran are going to be same with Acree.
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Post by sweep on Aug 2, 2021 15:36:59 GMT -6
Another hypothetical... If you were a sports reporter writing about this upcoming season. What would you be pushing whit for info about? Jones and Wyndham pop into my mind instantly. Followed by how Thomas is doing and how is soukas s progressing.. I think we know what Luke and Cochran are going to be same with Acree. I'd want to know why three assistant coaches left and why we presently only have two ? Or did I miss something and we hired someone else ?
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SPARKS
Aug 2, 2021 16:23:19 GMT -6
via mobile
Post by cardfan on Aug 2, 2021 16:23:19 GMT -6
Another hypothetical... If you were a sports reporter writing about this upcoming season. What would you be pushing whit for info about? Jones and Wyndham pop into my mind instantly. Followed by how Thomas is doing and how is soukas s progressing.. I think we know what Luke and Cochran are going to be same with Acree. I'd want to know why three assistant coaches left and why we presently only have two ? Or did I miss something and we hired someone else ? Article today says Whit is close to hiring the 3rd.
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Post by cardfan on Aug 2, 2021 16:30:58 GMT -6
If you play poker and make a good bet, and it doesn't pay off, doesn't make it a bad bet...
Neither Huggins nor Hendriks had any D1 offers other than Ball State. These were not "good bets". In poker you can bluff, basketball doesn't work that way. Any thorough vetting of Hendricks probably would have revealed he didn’t have the work ethic to prepare himself for d1. Hell, he’s 6’10 and “skilled” and did nothing in Canada. Meanwhile, Sparks is clearly far more self motivated and wants to be great. Unfortunately Whit recruits too many guys who are not self motivated to the level needed to win at a level higher than what Whit does. His most self motivated players who drove themselves to improve (and not by Whitford)? Bo Calhoun and Franko house. For the most part everyone since then has underachieved to some extent and/or flamed out as seniors.
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