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Post by 00hmh on Jan 16, 2022 6:27:37 GMT -6
Agree we have some players.
Which to me is a good thing.
We have good but hardly great talent, with a good but maybe not great freshman group. Give them some time and we'll know if it's top of the conference talent.
But that still means lack of experience is a problem relative to the better teams. Hope to see it less of problem after 20 conference games.
If the team does that it will be a good coaching job this year. No reason to deny it or be all that negative with the team and staff if they do the job.
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Buffalo
Jan 16, 2022 6:28:13 GMT -6
Post by sweep on Jan 16, 2022 6:28:13 GMT -6
I'm always a reasonable guy with ideas about how we can win, and why we might lose and generally kind of happy drunk. So I don't share your despair. This is a rebuild year and I never expected much, had hopes we'd improve and be competitive by MAC tourney time, still do, and so far this is more or less what I expected. So we are "rebuilding" after finishing eighth last season ? You are just a moron. |
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Post by 00hmh on Jan 16, 2022 6:38:06 GMT -6
I'm always a reasonable guy with ideas about how we can win, and why we might lose and generally kind of happy drunk...This is a rebuild year and I never expected much... So we are rebuilding after finishing eighth ? Losing leading scorers, and best players with as many minutes, yes, I'd say it's a rebuild. After a disappointing season, yes. By what logic anything else, and tough coaching challenge? |
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Post by sweep on Jan 16, 2022 7:43:43 GMT -6
So we are rebuilding after finishing eighth ? Losing leading scorers, and best players with as many minutes, yes, I'd say it's a rebuild. No, this is more reminiscent of a three year construction project in it's ninth year, and you still don't want to fire the contractor. You are just clueless. This is like trying to "rebuild" on a rotted foundation. |
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Post by williamtsherman on Jan 16, 2022 8:08:52 GMT -6
It's true that Whitford was not able to keep last year's most productive players from transferring (yet another thing to be concerned about going forward), but the term "rebuild" implies that there WAS something worthwhile built before. Going from 8th place last year to 9th this year is not rebuilding. Instead of using ridiculous euphemisms, why not speak plainly? The honest term for this is not "rebuilding", you should instead say "continued failure".
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Post by cardfan on Jan 16, 2022 9:05:30 GMT -6
When the best players off a meh team leave and you have another meh team the next year, what exactly was/is being rebuilt? A higher state of meh? Just about every season of Whitford we’ve had either teams with high expectations that flame out and go no where, or teams that are considered “rebuilds” and go no where. No matter how you slice it it 8 years whitfords program is stuck in neutral. The two teams that had some sort of post season had to play in buy-in tournaments, and that was years ago. And in those two seasons we played some of the worst schedules in the country. We bought wins. And it got us where? Right here, 9 years in, rebuilding after another road to nowhere. I like these players. There’s some talent there. Love Sparks. Good cornerstone. But right now the map for this road looks the same as all the previous ones— to nowhere. Veteran players, freshmen, ballyhooed transfers, Indiana all-stars, etc. year over year the end result is the same. The one constant? The coach. When someone shows you who they are the first time, believe them.
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Buffalo
Jan 16, 2022 9:30:25 GMT -6
Post by 00hmh on Jan 16, 2022 9:30:25 GMT -6
Losing leading scorers, and best players with as many minutes, yes, I'd say it's a rebuild. No, this is more reminiscent of a three year construction project in it's ninth year, and you still don't want to fire the contractor. You are just clueless. This is like trying to "rebuild" on a rotted foundation. Let me agree on one thing. You consider the coach the foundation to seeking championship level teams, and that is good way to look at it. But, you are going well beyond that. You also claim the players are no good, terribly flawed. If by season's end we see a team improve both can't be the case.
In fact the criticism in this thread and on the forum ranges from saying the players are good but the coach isn't, to an assessment that the players are no good and the coach can't put together a roster. A dominant theme is we want more than just "mediocre" results. It is certainly true our coach hasn't proven he put us into the upper tier of the MAC.
That line of criticism where I have a great deal of sympathy is that we have not put together a really good team in 8 years. And perhaps a cause for that which I buy is the prevailing view that the athletic administration has not made winning a very high priority. Since 2000 not high enough to hire a coach with really high potential, perhaps a previous winning record or in the case of Majerus a equivalent role as a "real" associate head coach with a winning record.
But wait a minute, we have done that ONCE since 1980. (And, then we of course were bound to lose him fairly soon, it happened sooner than we expected) We might have decided to use the momentum gained to hire another. We had a couple of chances, but iInstead we have hired good assistants in Hunsaker and Ray who were able to win, had strengths that could sustain a good record. But. Neither could have turned it around like Rick did. I believe Hunsaker was the guy we needed to retain longer term, and we were a bit lucky with Ray.
In the end, they were good, not great coaches. THEN. We fired one of them and let another go by not supporting his efforts. THEN we hired on the same basic premise that anybody can win at BSU. NOT. THEN we went off the deep end... THEN we fought to get out of the cellar.
There are reasons from an administrative point of view for all those decisions including the most recent two hires, and reasons in general to hire relatively cheap coaches with "good" but not great potential.
That is bound to piss off the fans. What I don't get is why those same pissed off fans think recycling with all those same reasons dominating the choice of a new coach will lead to much better results. It might for them "feel" better. They say "anything is better." I am not sure either is likely to to be true, or for that matter a significant a development. The pissed off fan base isn't going to change the budget or allow us to make BB a flagship sport for us and sustain any improvement that MIGHT be made. IF any.
I'll root for whatever team and coach we put on the floor, I'll be upset when we screw the pooch. I will also recognize when we see some bright spots and celebrate the good that comes along.
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Post by williamtsherman on Jan 16, 2022 9:47:46 GMT -6
Ah yes. Always with the "we have to outbid everyone for the most conventionally qualified coach" and never the slightest shred of evidence to back it up. In other words - we need to do something we can't afford to do and isn't the way most successful MAC programs do it anyway. Your limited mind has never, and seemingly CAN never get out of this endless, hopeless rut. So, you'd rather continue to support a proven failure rather than "cheaping out" on an inexpensive young coach...who could be disposed of easily anyway.
In the meantime, you'll just keep getting ridiculed for your idiotic euphemisms, constant bar lowering and sorry excuses for Whitford.
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Post by 00hmh on Jan 16, 2022 9:48:07 GMT -6
I have no idea why Ish did not stay if he was going to play college ball another year. Coleman left for reasons I think we all understand, and NOT for some idealistic desire to win championships... KJ left and then left his destination for probably the same reason. Perhaps he learned and accepts he will not be a college star and really doesn't belong in college doing something he doesn't like doing. Hazen had given us good service, was moving on into real world life.
None leaving indicated any dissatisfaction with BSU staff or team mates.
If you choose to "blame" the coach, what you are doing is saying "I don't like the coach, and I'll blame in for anything that is a problem." It's the way of fans, but then just maybe we should give him a small amount of credit if he overcomes that problem.
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Post by williamtsherman on Jan 16, 2022 9:53:19 GMT -6
Speaking of sorry excuses. I guess it's just a coincidence that a coach lost his four most productive returning players in the same off season. Could happen to any coach. There is an excuse in each case.
Why don't you just send this sort of bullshit to Kid as a private message? He's the only one here inclined to buy it. The rest of us are just laughing at you.
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Buffalo
Jan 16, 2022 9:55:44 GMT -6
Post by 00hmh on Jan 16, 2022 9:55:44 GMT -6
Ah yes. Always with the "we have to outbid everyone for the most conventionally qualified coach" and never the slightest shred of evidence to back it up. In other words - we need to do something we can't afford to do and isn't the way most successful MAC programs do it anyway. There is both historical and current evidence that hiring experienced coaches with a winning record works.
The most successful programs do that bidding thing. When they deviate from "conventional qualifications" it is pretty rare, and the best examples would be where they had a better reason than that they were unwilling to enter the market for lack of funds. Recently I can not recall any case of significant deviation, certainly not in the MAC, except when there was a successful program building on their success, not a program needing improvement and expecting radical change. |
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Post by bsu0 on Jan 16, 2022 10:17:56 GMT -6
I wish no ill will on the players but if the players have all this ability why are we barely .500? It must be the extremely ''complicated'' motion offense Whit is still trying to ''teach'' his stoned brain minions. Fire him now let the world know we are looking for a coach, hire a candidate and let's see what the future holds.
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Post by sweep on Jan 16, 2022 10:38:47 GMT -6
Coleman left for reasons I think we all understand, and NOT for some idealistic desire to win championships... You are out of your mind, Coleman left TO BE PART OF A BETTER PROGRAM. If that isn't an idealistic desire to win something I don't know what is. I can hardly believe it, but I actually think you are getting dumber. |
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Post by cardfan on Jan 16, 2022 11:40:50 GMT -6
I’ll be honest; I want us to either win big or fail big this year. It does the program no good to finish around .500 and lose in the first round again. The administration obviously has a very low bar for basketball and whitford easily achieves a low bar. So, in my mind we need to ether finish well below .500 in the conference again and hopefully force their hand to terminate him, or, we need to win the MAC tourney to give us at least something to feel good about. Finish middling again pretty much dooms us to another 5 years of middling with Whitford. So let’s either win big or suck big.
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Post by 00hmh on Jan 16, 2022 12:02:08 GMT -6
Coleman left for reasons I think we all understand, and NOT for some idealistic desire to win championships... You are out of your mind, Coleman left TO BE PART OF A BETTER PROGRAM. If that is an idealistic desire to win something I don't know what is. I can hardly believe it, but I actually think you are getting dumber. Coleman left for Coleman. He thought a bigger stage was right for his talents. Call it idealistic if you want. Self interest is an ideal in the abstract, I suppose. Or was i t just ego? |
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