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Buffalo
Jan 16, 2022 12:03:51 GMT -6
Post by 00hmh on Jan 16, 2022 12:03:51 GMT -6
I’ll be honest; I want us to either win big or fail big this year. It does the program no good to finish around .500 and lose in the first round again. The administration obviously has a very low bar for basketball and whitford easily achieves a low bar. So, in my mind we need to ether finish well below .500 in the conference again and hopefully force their hand to terminate him, or, we need to win the MAC tourney to give us at least something to feel good about. Finish middling again pretty much dooms us to another 5 years of middling with Whitford. So let’s either win big or suck big. Neither is very likely is it?
And you have a strong and I think unfounded assumption that Whitford is the source of evil here. You really think we get a killer coach if we replace him?
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Buffalo
Jan 16, 2022 12:15:34 GMT -6
Post by david75bsu on Jan 16, 2022 12:15:34 GMT -6
No, this is more reminiscent of a three year construction project in it's ninth year, and you still don't want to fire the contractor. You are just clueless. This is like trying to "rebuild" on a rotted foundation. Let me agree on one thing. You consider the coach the foundation to seeking championship level teams, and that is good way to look at it. But, you are going well beyond that. You also claim the players are no good, terribly flawed. If by season's end we see a team improve both can't be the case.
In fact the criticism in this thread and on the forum ranges from saying the players are good but the coach isn't, to an assessment that the players are no good and the coach can't put together a roster. A dominant theme is we want more than just "mediocre" results. It is certainly true our coach hasn't proven he put us into the upper tier of the MAC.
That line of criticism where I have a great deal of sympathy is that we have not put together a really good team in 8 years. And perhaps a cause for that which I buy is the prevailing view that the athletic administration has not made winning a very high priority. Since 2000 not high enough to hire a coach with really high potential, perhaps a previous winning record or in the case of Majerus a equivalent role as a "real" associate head coach with a winning record.
But wait a minute, we have done that ONCE since 1980. (And, then we of course were bound to lose him fairly soon, it happened sooner than we expected) We might have decided to use the momentum gained to hire another. We had a couple of chances, but iInstead we have hired good assistants in Hunsaker and Ray who were able to win, had strengths that could sustain a good record. But. Neither could have turned it around like Rick did. I believe Hunsaker was the guy we needed to retain longer term, and we were a bit lucky with Ray.
In the end, they were good, not great coaches. THEN. We fired one of them and let another go by not supporting his efforts. THEN we hired on the same basic premise that anybody can win at BSU. NOT. THEN we went off the deep end... THEN we fought to get out of the cellar.
There are reasons from an administrative point of view for all those decisions including the most recent two hires, and reasons in general to hire relatively cheap coaches with "good" but not great potential.
That is bound to piss off the fans. What I don't get is why those same pissed off fans think recycling with all those same reasons dominating the choice of a new coach will lead to much better results. It might for them "feel" better. They say "anything is better." I am not sure either is likely to to be true, or for that matter a significant a development. The pissed off fan base isn't going to change the budget or allow us to make BB a flagship sport for us and sustain any improvement that MIGHT be made. IF any.
I'll root for whatever team and coach we put on the floor, I'll be upset when we screw the pooch. I will also recognize when we see some bright spots and celebrate the good that comes along.
An excellent depiction of the Ball State basketball. As you, I will support the team we have on the floor. |
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Buffalo
Jan 16, 2022 12:47:55 GMT -6
Post by sweep on Jan 16, 2022 12:47:55 GMT -6
Let me agree on one thing. You consider the coach the foundation to seeking championship level teams, and that is good way to look at it. But, you are going well beyond that. You also claim the players are no good, terribly flawed. If by season's end we see a team improve both can't be the case.
In fact the criticism in this thread and on the forum ranges from saying the players are good but the coach isn't, to an assessment that the players are no good and the coach can't put together a roster. A dominant theme is we want more than just "mediocre" results. It is certainly true our coach hasn't proven he put us into the upper tier of the MAC.
That line of criticism where I have a great deal of sympathy is that we have not put together a really good team in 8 years. And perhaps a cause for that which I buy is the prevailing view that the athletic administration has not made winning a very high priority. Since 2000 not high enough to hire a coach with really high potential, perhaps a previous winning record or in the case of Majerus a equivalent role as a "real" associate head coach with a winning record.
But wait a minute, we have done that ONCE since 1980. (And, then we of course were bound to lose him fairly soon, it happened sooner than we expected) We might have decided to use the momentum gained to hire another. We had a couple of chances, but iInstead we have hired good assistants in Hunsaker and Ray who were able to win, had strengths that could sustain a good record. But. Neither could have turned it around like Rick did. I believe Hunsaker was the guy we needed to retain longer term, and we were a bit lucky with Ray.
In the end, they were good, not great coaches. THEN. We fired one of them and let another go by not supporting his efforts. THEN we hired on the same basic premise that anybody can win at BSU. NOT. THEN we went off the deep end... THEN we fought to get out of the cellar.
There are reasons from an administrative point of view for all those decisions including the most recent two hires, and reasons in general to hire relatively cheap coaches with "good" but not great potential.
That is bound to piss off the fans. What I don't get is why those same pissed off fans think recycling with all those same reasons dominating the choice of a new coach will lead to much better results. It might for them "feel" better. They say "anything is better." I am not sure either is likely to to be true, or for that matter a significant a development. The pissed off fan base isn't going to change the budget or allow us to make BB a flagship sport for us and sustain any improvement that MIGHT be made. IF any.
I'll root for whatever team and coach we put on the floor, I'll be upset when we screw the pooch. I will also recognize when we see some bright spots and celebrate the good that comes along.
As you, I will support the team we have on the floor. SuperFan...................... |
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Post by cardfan on Jan 16, 2022 12:56:52 GMT -6
I think we can both root for the team on the floor and also demand/expect/want better than we’ve gotten. In most people’s jobs if you consistently underperform you suffer consequences, such as being removed from your job. If the players are constantly changing but the coach stats the same and the program doesn’t achieve much in the way of REAL success then just who the hell do you think the cause of that is? But, we’ll still be here 3 years from now defending the same coach for the same results with vague and mostly BS, we can’t get a better coach justifications. It’s freaking old after 8 years of it and we’re sub .500 in mid January in year 9.
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Post by lmills72 on Jan 16, 2022 13:27:20 GMT -6
Anyone who really wants Whitford replaced, if they're honest with themselves, is not rooting for this team to win this year. And, being honest, I have to put myself in that category.
And I'm also sure many people out there will say I'm not a "real fan" if at any time I'm not rooting for the Cards, and that's fine.
But what I want for those athletes who wear Ball State on their chests is to be coached to their highest possible level of achievement. To know the exhilaration and satisfaction of being part of something truly special. I don't believe the current athletes on the BSU roster are ever going to get that with this coach. I believe they're going to spend 4, 5, 6 years being part of something average.
And I believe they deserve better than that. I believe they can be better than that.
I also believe that those who defend Whitford do not truly want those things for those athletes. Oh, they think it would be just dandy if it happened, but they don't really want to make the hard decisions that in the short-term might cause some pain for those kids but in the long run could deliver to them a piece of their dream.
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Post by david75bsu on Jan 16, 2022 15:45:01 GMT -6
I think we can both root for the team on the floor and also demand/expect/want better than we’ve gotten. In most people’s jobs if you consistently underperform you suffer consequences, such as being removed from your job. If the players are constantly changing but the coach stats the same and the program doesn’t achieve much in the way of REAL success then just who the hell do you think the cause of that is? But, we’ll still be here 3 years from now defending the same coach for the same results with vague and mostly BS, we can’t get a better coach justifications. It’s freaking old after 8 years of it and we’re sub .500 in mid January in year 9. I do feel the coach is the main problem. However, i do think we have good enough players to be successful in the MAC and I will always support the team! |
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Buffalo
Jan 16, 2022 17:09:36 GMT -6
via mobile
Post by 00hmh on Jan 16, 2022 17:09:36 GMT -6
mills, you, no we, are living the dream, feeling robbed, not the players.
You are dreaming any of this is going to have long term impact on BSU administration.
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Post by sdacardinal on Jan 16, 2022 17:23:00 GMT -6
I do think the team is really playing better.
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Post by JacksonStreetElite on Jan 16, 2022 19:15:03 GMT -6
I’m such a big fan I hope we continue to suck for another 20 years so all you pretenders will eventually give up and when we finally luck into a championship you losers wont even know about it. That way us good guys are the only ones to enjoy it.
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Buffalo
Jan 16, 2022 19:42:54 GMT -6
Post by coastalcard on Jan 16, 2022 19:42:54 GMT -6
I’m such a big fan I hope we continue to suck for another 20 years so all you pretenders will eventually give up and when we finally luck into a championship you losers wont even know about it. That way us good guys are the only ones to enjoy it. 🤔 Now I don’t know if I’m a pretender, a loser or a good guy 🤷♂️ |
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Post by JacksonStreetElite on Jan 16, 2022 19:50:26 GMT -6
I’m such a big fan I hope we continue to suck for another 20 years so all you pretenders will eventually give up and when we finally luck into a championship you losers wont even know about it. That way us good guys are the only ones to enjoy it. 🤔 Now I don’t know if I’m a pretender, a loser or a good guy 🤷♂️ You’ll know in 20 years. |
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Post by williamtsherman on Jan 17, 2022 7:26:11 GMT -6
I'm a pretender, I'm a loser, I'm a good guy
I play my music in the sun
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Post by jburton on Jan 17, 2022 17:42:56 GMT -6
Anyone who really wants Whitford replaced, if they're honest with themselves, is not rooting for this team to win this year. And, being honest, I have to put myself in that category. I can't comprehend wishing for Ball State to lose no matter how much I think it is time for a coaching change. If it were up to me, the team would win out, make it to the NCAA tournament and Whit-less would receive zero credit and promptly fired. I rarely get what I want. I was crushed with Sofía Vergara got married. |
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Buffalo
Jan 17, 2022 17:47:00 GMT -6
Post by sweep on Jan 17, 2022 17:47:00 GMT -6
I Googled Sophia Varga and I still have no idea who she is.
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Buffalo
Jan 17, 2022 17:48:03 GMT -6
via mobile
Post by jburton on Jan 17, 2022 17:48:03 GMT -6
I Googled Sophia Varga and I still have no idea who she is. Sofía Vergara (corrected) |
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