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Post by williamtsherman on Apr 4, 2016 14:38:36 GMT -6
I was surprised that Ray didn't do well at Houston. He seemed to have found his recruiting secret sauce his last two years here. I thought he might make the enormous Houston metro area his recruiting base and, at the same time, use his previous success around here to keep open an IN/MI/OH/IL pipeline. You might say that Houston is an unworkable program, but the fact is that each of the three coaches that followed Ray did better than he did. Ray just didn't do well there
At Detroit he has just been sort of average, and if you throw out the effect of having a son who was an NBA 1st round draft choice, his overall record there is not too impressive.
I've always been a Ray supporter/defender on this board. Bottom line is that he won two championships and left a cupboard that was full to bursting with talent. Compare THAT to everyone since. People didn't appreciate him because the previous two coaches had won even bigger. People criticize how he handled Bonzi, but in my view he did that masterfully. Let's face it, Bonzi was a handful in HS, a handful in the NBA and was probably a handful during his short stint in China. Ray got steady, high production out of him with only minimal publicly-known outbursts. Would Buckley have? That could have been extremely ugly. Taylor? Bonzi would have walked all over him. Hunsaker? Interesting but potentially volatile. Majerus? I would love to have tried it, but could Majerus have tolerated Bonzi and his Muncie posse/enablers? I think I'm glad it was Ray. It wasn't issues with Bonzi that prevented additional championships, it was that Ryan Reed was our primary big man at the time.
I was advocating for hiring Ray at the time of the Taylor hire. Wouldn't have taken much to have been an improvement over Taylor. But how well would it really have gone? We will never know, but I'm less confident now than I was then.
I think a key factor, if not THE key factor in coaching ups and downs is recruiting energy. Recruiting is a hard, time-consuming, aggravating, even demeaning grind. I think this is the main reason you see coaches fade out and fail to reach their earlier success. Did Ray just get tired of doing what it takes to find and land the Theron Smiths? Maybe. If Whitford ran off to join the Peace Corp tomorrow, I probably would not advocate for Ray.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 5, 2016 9:42:41 GMT -6
"Assistant at mid major is a significant step down. He can do better."
Based on what.......?
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Post by 00hmh on Apr 5, 2016 11:11:28 GMT -6
HC experience and recruiting skill should get him a high major job as assistant. Jobs coaching as head coach at a lower level D2 would be more rewarding professionally and pay as much.
Anything he does is probably a step down, but an assistant at a mid major does literally nothing for his future, and could hardly be as satisfying.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 5, 2016 11:17:22 GMT -6
Ray has a LOT of contacts in DI programs, as well as with the shoe guys. Those folks always look after you. He'll be fine if he wants to be.
It's possible Ray may want to go to a program where he can bring in Little Ray as an assistant to get him experience.
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Post by rmcalhoun on Apr 5, 2016 11:23:30 GMT -6
Bryce Drew is rumored to be heading to Vandy.. Wrong thread sorry
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Post by Deleted on Apr 5, 2016 12:05:23 GMT -6
HC experience and recruiting skill should get him a high major job as assistant. Jobs coaching as head coach at a lower level D2 would be more rewarding professionally and pay as much. Anything he does is probably a step down, but an assistant at a mid major does literally nothing for his future, and could hardly be as satisfying. His recruiting at Detroit was mediocre at best and his coaching was even worse.
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Post by 00hmh on Apr 5, 2016 13:12:32 GMT -6
His recruiting at Detroit was mediocre at best and his coaching was even worse. Better than mediocre, probably, but not great, it is true. Still, he could do better at a good school. Look how Buckley has done in asst coach jobs.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 5, 2016 13:23:08 GMT -6
His recruiting at Detroit was mediocre at best and his coaching was even worse. Better than mediocre, probably, but not great, it is true. Still, he could do better at a good school. Look how Buckley has done in asst coach jobs. Yeah but Buckley was like forty years old, Ray is closing in on sixty. Look I agree he would better off at a big program, but I don't think we will see a long line for his services, especially considering a lot of college basketball people flat out don't like the guy.
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Post by cardfan on Apr 5, 2016 13:53:11 GMT -6
Dakich sure hasn't made a secret of his hate for Ray.
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Post by 00hmh on Apr 5, 2016 14:02:25 GMT -6
Ray is closing in on sixty. Buckley was 40 a long time ago, he is still better off as an assistant. He is born 1963, 2 years younger than Ray, '61. If Ray wants to be in college basketball, he will get a chance. He did better than Buckley when he left BSU, still ahead of him now, don't see why he wouldn't fit with a pretty good program as an assistant.
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Post by williamtsherman on Apr 5, 2016 14:15:58 GMT -6
True story: While I was doing odd jobs during grad school, I happened to do some electrical work in Ray's house. His kids were young at the time, and I convinced them that my normal job was as a pirate. They were skeptical, but I took advantage of the me being an adult and them being young kids to make up a series of lies that they couldn't punch holes in. For example, I told them I had my ship parked along the White River. They were not aware that the White River is not navigable to the ocean from Yorktown.
Also, while running wire through his attic, I ran into the MAC Tourney MVP trophy.
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Post by cardfan on Apr 5, 2016 14:22:47 GMT -6
True story: While I was doing odd jobs during grad school, I happened to do some electrical work in Ray's house. His kids were young at the time, and I convinced them that my normal job was as a pirate. They were skeptical, but I took advantage of the me being an adult and them being young kids to make up a series of lies that they couldn't punch holes in. For example, I told them I had my ship parked along the White River. They were not aware that the White River is not navigable to the ocean from Yorktown.
Also, while running wire through his attic, I ran into the MAC Tourney MVP trophy. I always knew you were a lying, cheating pirate.
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Post by 00hmh on Apr 5, 2016 14:25:38 GMT -6
Look out General, Muncie probably has an city ordinance about story telling pirates, they have to be prepared for some weird things here and know they are on alert for gypsy workmen. Not sure the police are aware of the navigability of the White River, might be watching for your boat to return.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 5, 2016 14:49:47 GMT -6
Ray is closing in on sixty. Buckley was 40 a long time ago, he is still better off as an assistant. He is born 1963, 2 years younger than Ray, '61. If Ray wants to be in college basketball, he will get a chance. He did better than Buckley when he left BSU, still ahead of him now, don't see why he wouldn't fit with a pretty good program as an assistant. I said he WAS forty when he was hired as an assistant. Not very many programs want a sixty year old former head coach.
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Post by reevo on Apr 5, 2016 15:11:32 GMT -6
Dakich sure hasn't made a secret of his hate for Ray. Yea. I about called into his show one day when he kept talking about IU's probation during the Sampson era and calling Ray a lying cheat. Well,'I looked at the NCAA report and 2 assistants were cleared for no wrongdoing; Dakiich and Ray. Maybe he knows something we don't but his crap is tiring.
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