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Post by Deleted on Jun 14, 2016 13:16:48 GMT -6
Internships doing copying should not earn credit. Good internship requires students to do real work and to be able to relate it to their major. Still don't know what immersive is and why glorified group project is better than actually going to work. Yeah except how many businesses are going to bring in an intern to do actual professional work. I have always found interns to be counterproductive and disruptive to necessary work flow.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 14, 2016 13:27:54 GMT -6
cms.bsu.edu/academics/centersandinstitutes/entrepreneurshipcenterIt teaches students the groundwork for being a business innovator, marketer/promoter, and (hopefully) future venture capitalist. I've spent a substantial amount of time with that department, and it's pretty intense. The degree is pass/fail. This, of course, flies in the face of the many academics who, on one hand, bemoan the greed of capitalism, then, on the other hand, complain that they are underpaid. Usually the same academics that could never make it in the corporate world. It has to do with a lot of college professors washing out of the private sector before escaping into academics. Remember the great line from Ghost Busters www.youtube.com/watch?v=tKT-eWMWXOE&ab_channel=RyanStinerKind of sums it all up.
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Post by 00hmh on Jun 14, 2016 15:43:59 GMT -6
Internships doing copying should not earn credit. Good internship requires students to do real work and to be able to relate it to their major. Still don't know what immersive is and why glorified group project is better than actually going to work. Yeah except how many businesses are going to bring in an intern to do actual professional work. I have always found interns to be counterproductive and disruptive to necessary work flow. Internships in accounting and finance routinely are good experience for the student and give value to the company. That is true in other areas where you hire only good students, and they have some value at the least a way to see if you want to recruit and hire the intern. I could not agree with you more that if the interns are actually just in the way, then they should not be hired, and there should be no credit. Worst case is the do nothing, pay nothing intern, maybe. Free gofer labor does not much good for either side, definitely should not earn credit. The problem with the immersive projects is not that it is necessarily a bad thing to do, but Gora put so much emphasis on the "group" problem solving and media produced and so much work on the faculty mentor that the "solutions" produced were sometimes slick and sometimes even valuable, but there was a lot of sound of motion and not as much real life experience as a more mundane internship, and not every student got a lot of benefit(or did a lot of work to earn the credit).
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Post by 00hmh on Jun 14, 2016 16:10:56 GMT -6
Engineering profs and business profs ought to have been in the field. That they come to the University, usually giving up higher income prospects, doesn't mean they are failures in business or science or whatever field. When they work at the U, the job itself prevents the working much more than a very small part of the time in the real world, that is true, and that means the students get that time, so that's not all bad. Now a philosophy professor or history professor or lit professor usually contributes to students without the prof having any direct practical application in mind. Liberal education and university education generally is not all applied knowledge and should not be. Showing up for philosophy class and turning in assignments is actually pretty good practice for the work world. Listening and asking questions,figuring out how to read the manual and think differently and arguing with the prof is good practice too. Not always tangible results I admit...
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Post by Deleted on Jun 15, 2016 6:04:53 GMT -6
"Engineering profs and business profs ought to have been in the field. That they come to the University, usually giving up higher income prospects, doesn't mean they are failures in business or science or whatever field. When they work at the U, the job itself prevents the working much more than a very small part of the time in the real world, that is true, and that means the students get that time, so that's not all bad."
Yeah they should, but many times they haven't, or if they have it too often didn't end well. Also don't give me the garbage about Profs giving up higher paying private sector jobs so they can teach, the vast majority of teachers are making as much or, with benefits added, far more than they could doing anything else. My father was a full time college Prof ( eventual Department Head) and also ran a successful professional practice at the same time, one of his favorite sayings was "full time professorship, is a part time job". Besides it gave him a great reason to skip faculty meetings.
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Post by 00hmh on Jun 15, 2016 7:21:39 GMT -6
Internships doing copying should not earn credit. Good internship requires students to do real work and to be able to relate it to their major. Still don't know what immersive is and why glorified group project is better than actually going to work. You should talk to Chris Taylor in SportsLink. That guy lives and breathes immersive learning. It focuses on collaborative effort (with specific individual responsibilities) to achieve a goal, produce a product, or solve a problem. It's hands-on, real world experience. So they are actually "going to work." As I said, these projects can be great. I support immersive learning. It makes perfect sense, as a good example, to produce video for SportsLink. That is after all what the majors will be doing. For students in a group to manage the money in the Student Managed Investment Fund is great for a finance major and it is appropriate to have to work in a group and interact as they do with the Foundation. For other projects requiring that format in a relatively artificial way is another thing. The idea that the immersive learning project has to be at a minimum a group project with an artificially contrived structure to qualify as a plus and allow support by a faculty member who makes an effort to support it is not always good. It means faculty time is channeled into projects that fit that definition, instead of other work that may have equal or more impact on an individual student. Those other activities can be a critical part of the process of job search and provide invaluable experience. But unfortunately if it doesn't count for the faculty member who works with a real world firm and sets up that internship or experiential learning, resources are shifted to other projects. That should not happen, the definition should not be so narrow. Students appearing in slick ads featuring their work product video is fine, but it's not the only way to fly and most first jobs for most grads do not involve the "group" format, or video, or other restrictions on immersive learning.
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Post by 00hmh on Jun 15, 2016 7:35:28 GMT -6
Also don't give me the garbage about Profs giving up higher paying private sector jobs so they can teach, the vast majority of teachers are making as much or, with benefits added, far more than they could doing anything else. My father was a full time college Prof ( eventual Department Head) and also ran a successful professional practice at the same time, one of his favorite sayings was "full time professorship, is a part time job". Besides it gave him a great reason to skip faculty meetings. The typical faculty member in business and other applied fields does give up income. Especially when consider the cost of training. Dropping out of a PHD program with an MBA from a good school would mean higher lifetime earnings. The faculty member who pursues a PHD in the liberal arts from an economic point of view probably makes a mistake, but the best career advice it is to pursue a job you believe in and do well, so that has to be factored in. Even then , spending 3-6 years in degree work with compensation as a GA sacrifices a lot of money. And, assuming you finish, teaching jobs for a majority of PhD's now are often very low paying non tenure track positions. I bet your dad loved his job, and I bet he went to most of those meetings, and made a big difference for a lot of students. I'd be surprised if he listed his reasons for his career path as wealth maximization.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 15, 2016 8:03:53 GMT -6
You are just wrong. Most business Profs gave up a middle management career at a bank or like institution that would pay in the middling high five figures right now, where you sure as hell wouldn't get a fully matched 401-k or other benefits that the typical full prof receives. Do you really think the BSU Finance Department Profs teaching Investment courses have "Wall Street" begging their services.
Most liberal arts majors rarely ever pursue actual employment in their field of study, so the ones who do are sort stuck in the academic system where they will suck it up and pay their dues just like all professionals.
As far as my father goes believe me he enjoyed teaching until he was pressured to give passing grades to mid career adult students, in an evening division program, who had no business taking full credit college courses. However he would have bugged years earlier without the generous 401-k match, family medical insurance, and child tuition waiver. Besides it never curtailed his other income stream anyway, so yes it was largely about money.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 15, 2016 10:14:10 GMT -6
So, back to the original intention of this thread.........
I've actively thrown my hat in the ring (submitted a resume). I'm new to this, so I included some of you as "references". You may notice that my historical responses in some of the more controversial threads have been recently redacted (I think that word is now appropriate). You might expect a follow up call from the BOT......just sayin'
Oh, full disclosure, I anticipate managing the university remotely......from my current home.
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Post by cardfan on Jun 15, 2016 10:33:08 GMT -6
You have my support!
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Post by Deleted on Jun 15, 2016 10:38:26 GMT -6
I'll support anyone who knows what the term "cost benefit analysis" means.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 15, 2016 11:22:07 GMT -6
I'll support anyone who knows what the term "cost benefit analysis" means. Yeah, sure........I'm pretty certain Hunsaker coached in the CBA, Grand Rapids, I think.... I've made an offer on a used motor home for my outreach campaign......ignore the My Man Mitch wrap on the side. I assume I can park it next to the sled for football opening game. Can I count you in?
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Post by Deleted on Jun 15, 2016 11:41:11 GMT -6
Sure, why not. A bucket of sand in Presidents Office would have made better financial decisions than Gora.
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Post by rmcalhoun on Jun 15, 2016 12:14:52 GMT -6
Fuck Ive turned this into spin control
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