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Post by thebsukid on Sept 6, 2018 15:16:49 GMT -6
Much closer...
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Post by 00hmh on Sept 6, 2018 15:28:14 GMT -6
I would give the edge to this current teams bench but the difference between the top 5 players and the overall roster of this years team is still much better. The Maui team on paper is double digits better then the current team. Smith would dominate any matchup and the boards would be owned by the maui group. Much more quickness and athletic ability plus 3 prolific scorers make the maui team an easy winner. Yes. No comparison. And let’s not forget we Still haven’t won anything. Need to do that first before proclaiming anything. There is a fair comparison, and the Maui team's biggest win was probably in Maui...but you are right on to say this team has to go out and prove something.
I like the idea they have to do that, it can be an incentive to do big things. They have no NBA prospect, they have seniors who have played hard but so far a career with disappointment. OTOH, it has never been a lack of effort, they have been challenged by adversity and have played some gritty basketball, won some tough road games when out manned, and come up just short. They have to be thinking about that and wanting to prove something.
How the additions of Hazen and Walton and how young players like Gunn and Ish and the transfer Nehls all fit together is going to be the key. I don't think we can conclude how good they are right now.
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Post by reevo on Sept 6, 2018 16:55:04 GMT -6
We do not agree well possibly in part...this year's team is deeper, and their play this year must be fully considered in fairness to both of our arguments. By the way, you say they were more talented maybe yes and maybe no: Jackson-Persons quicker agree but a bigger contributor I think not Williams-Walton this season will determine but my monies on Walton Jones-Moses Jones a better defender but Moses better offensively and I suspect better overall stats Smith-Teague Smith an NBA body and better overall, however, Teague still has two seasons to catch up Mallers-Owens Mallers the edge Bench-BSU 2018 Edge And, I will remind you that the Maui team had talent but most people were very disappointed they could only make an NIT run and did not appear in the big show.... the Maui team underperformed there is little doubt and other than a couple of early season big wins and a few wins in the NIT what did they achieve? Disappointed yes but don’t forget they were a top 8 finisher in the NIT. Go back and check their pre season schedule. Include Oklahoma, Indiana, Butler and others plus the conference was more talented at that time.
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Post by reevo on Sept 6, 2018 17:14:33 GMT -6
Oh and I forgot to add that Jackson and Jones class was a top 50 and the best mid major recruiting class in the country. I saw Walton play a lot in high school and he will never be the scorer that Chris Williams was. Williams was a legit top 100 talent that went to Loyola originally because of grades. I am not saying this years team is not talented, but simply not in the same class as 2001’s team.
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Post by redfeather on Sept 6, 2018 17:35:15 GMT -6
I have to go with the Maui team as well and don’t forget T. Smith left after his junior year so who knows how good his senior year team would have been had he stayed.
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Post by thebsukid on Sept 6, 2018 22:37:52 GMT -6
Just some added color for our debate:
Maui team finished 3rd place in the West.
T. Smith averaged 16.3 pts 8 rebounds Teague averaged 12.1 pts 7.5 rebounds
P. Jackson averaged 13.9 pts 4 assists Persons averaged 15 pts 4 assists
Lonnie Jones averaged 9.4 pts 6.6 rebounds Trey averaged 11.3 pts 8.2 rebounds
The telling factor is the Maui team placed 3rd in the MAC west...hard to perfume a pig, but they performed well in the NIT.
Also, since I'm comparing this years team with the Maui team it will be fairer to compare at the seasons conclusion...wins...strength of schedule...MAC performance...post season...and even stats.
I'm going to make a point that some will disagree with but I've seen teams in the last 18 years that aren't in my view as good as our second five:
PG Ish SG Nehls 3 Gunn 4 Hazen 5 Huggins
Plus potentially Acree, Thompson, and Coleman
Very deep.....9 for sure.
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Post by thebsukid on Sept 6, 2018 22:40:09 GMT -6
Just some added color for our debate: Maui team finished 3rd place in the West. T. Smith averaged 16.3 pts 8 rebounds Teague averaged 12.1 pts 7.5 rebounds P. Jackson averaged 13.9 pts 4 assists Persons averaged 15 pts 4 assists Lonnie Jones averaged 9.4 pts 6.6 rebounds Trey averaged 11.3 pts 8.2 rebounds The telling factor is the Maui team placed 3rd in the MAC west...hard to perfume a pig, but they performed well in the NIT. Also, since I'm comparing this years team with the Maui team it will be fairer to compare at the seasons conclusion...wins...strength of schedule...MAC performance...post season...and even stats. I'm going to make a point that some will disagree with but I've seen BSU teams in the last 18 years that aren't in my view as good as our second five: PG Ish SG Nehls 3 Gunn 4 Hazen 5 Huggins Plus potentially Acree, Thompson, and Coleman Very deep.....9 for sure.
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Post by thebsukid on Sept 6, 2018 22:40:43 GMT -6
Just some added color for our debate: Maui team finished 3rd place in the West. T. Smith averaged 16.3 pts 8 rebounds Teague averaged 12.1 pts 7.5 rebounds P. Jackson averaged 13.9 pts 4 assists Persons averaged 15 pts 4 assists Lonnie Jones averaged 9.4 pts 6.6 rebounds Trey averaged 11.3 pts 8.2 rebounds The telling factor is the Maui team placed 3rd in the MAC west...hard to perfume a pig, but they performed well in the NIT. Also, since I'm comparing this years team with the Maui team it will be fairer to compare at the seasons conclusion...wins...strength of schedule...MAC performance...post season...and even stats. I'm going to make a point that some will disagree with but I've seen some BSU teams in the last 18 years that aren't in my view as good as our second five: PG Ish SG Nehls 3 Gunn 4 Hazen 5 Huggins Plus potentially Acree, Thompson, and Coleman Very deep.....9 for sure.
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Post by thebsukid on Sept 6, 2018 22:42:30 GMT -6
Sorry don’t know why it showed up 3x ?!
Maybe just for emphasis
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Post by reevo on Sept 6, 2018 23:08:28 GMT -6
Just some added color for our debate: Maui team finished 3rd place in the West. T. Smith averaged 16.3 pts 8 rebounds Teague averaged 12.1 pts 7.5 rebounds P. Jackson averaged 13.9 pts 4 assists Persons averaged 15 pts 4 assists Lonnie Jones averaged 9.4 pts 6.6 rebounds Trey averaged 11.3 pts 8.2 rebounds The telling factor is the Maui team placed 3rd in the MAC west...hard to perfume a pig, but they performed well in the NIT. Also, since I'm comparing this years team with the Maui team it will be fairer to compare at the seasons conclusion...wins...strength of schedule...MAC performance...post season...and even stats. I'm going to make a point that some will disagree with but I've seen teams in the last 18 years that aren't in my view as good as our second five: PG Ish SG Nehls 3 Gunn 4 Hazen 5 Huggins Plus potentially Acree, Thompson, and Coleman Very deep.....9 for sure. Kid, your stats are way off. Here are the stats from 2001-2: I believe you got your stats from the 2000-2001 season. Also BSU won the West with a 12-6 record. Theron Smith. 19.6 Pts. 10.9 Reb. 1.5 asst. shot 51%. 38% 3pt. 74%Ft Pete Jackson. 16.6 Pts. 2.6 Reb. 3.5 asst. shot 47%. 42%. 3pt. 80%Ft Chris Williams. 16.0 Pts. 3.0 Reb. 1.5 asst. shot 42%. 40%. 3pt. 81%Ft Lonnie Jones. 8.0 Pts. 5.4 Reb. 2.8 Blks. Shot 58%. 51%Ft Robbie Owens. 4.6 Pts. 3.5 Reb. .5 asst. Shot 45%. 37%3pt. 71%Ft 2017-18 Taylor Persons. 15.0 Pts. 3 Reb. 4asst. Shot 46%. 37% 3pt. 67% Ft Tahjai Teague. 12.1 Pts. 7.5 Reb. 1.2 asst Shot 53% 15%3pt. 60% Ft Trey Moses. 11.3 Pts. 8.2 Reb. 2.1 asst Shot 57%. 1blk. 60%Ft Kyle Mallers. 9.6 Pts. 4.9 Reb. 1.3 asst. Shot 45%. 34% 3Pt 85%Ft Sean Sellers. 8.3 Pts. 4.3 Reb. 1.2 asst Shot 42%. 37%3Pt. 82%Ft 2001-02 Overall: 23-12 .657 W-L% (62nd of 321) Conference: 12-6, 1st in MAC West 2017-18 Overall: 19-13 .594 W-L% (119th of 351) Conference: 10-8, 3rd in MAC West 2001-2 Schedule & Strength Schedule and Results Kansas (7) Big 12 W 93-91 UCLA (3) Pac-10 W 91 73 Duke (1) ACC L 71 83 Elon Big South W 106 65 Austin Peay OVC W 81 60 Fort Wayne W 113 89 @ Indiana Big Ten L 61 74 IUPUI Mid-Cont W 103 81 @ Butler Horizon L 66 75 @ Indiana State MVC W 68 54 @oklahoma State (5) Big 12 L 70 82 @ Kent State MAC L 54 81 @ Eastern Michigan MAC W 63 45 Central Michigan MAC W 89 77 @ Toledo MAC W 68 59 Bowling Green State MAC W 92 79 Akron MAC W 78 66 Western Michigan MAC W 74 61 @ Miami (OH) MAC L 77 80 @ Marshall MAC L 95 98 2OT 13 7 Eastern Michigan MAC W 90 56 14 7 @ Northern Illinois MAC W 86 81 23 @ Ohio MAC L 71 85 Buffalo MAC W 87 63 Toledo MAC W 81 63 @ Western Michigan MAC L 65 80 Miami (OH) MAC W 74 58 Northern Illinois MAC L 68 69 @ Central Michigan MAC W 81 77 CTOURN N Miami (OH) MAC W 62 50 CTOURN N Bowling Green State MAC L 57 69 NIT South Florida CUSA W 98 92 NIT @ Saint Joseph's A-10 W 76 54 NIT @ Louisiana State SEC W 75 65 23 11 W 3 Marav NIT @ South Carolina. SEC L
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Post by cardfan on Sept 7, 2018 5:32:44 GMT -6
Mac was much tougher in 2001 and our overall rating was much better then. Our current team probably would not fare that well in that league and against that schedule. Conversely I think the Maui team would dominate today’s league.
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Post by reevo on Sept 7, 2018 10:14:57 GMT -6
To further my point that there is really no comparison between the teams and league, look at the final Sagarin ratings for the 2001-2002 season. As far as schedule, the 2001-02 played arguably the most difficult schedule ever by a BSU team. I sure do not recall a tougher schedule. The Maui team played 8 top 50 teams; 13 top 100. record was 6-7. Pretty damn good when a majority of those games were on the road! Sagarin Ratings for 2001-02/MAC Conference/CONFERENCE RANK 11 17. Kent State 54. Ball State 63. Bowling Green 99. Ohio 131. Western Michigan 133. Miami Ohio 143. Toledo 159. Marshall 193. Northern Illinois 195. Buffalo 204. Central Michigan 225. Akron 297. Eastern Michigan Sagarin Ratings for 2017-18/MAC Conference/Conference Ranking 14 overall 69. Buffalo 118. Toledo 143. Eastern Michigan 169. BSU 170. Central Michigan 180. Western Michigan 186. Ohio 191. Kent 204. Miami Oh 226. Akron 227. Bowling Green 239. Northern Illinois
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Post by thebsukid on Sept 7, 2018 10:19:16 GMT -6
Sorry Reevo...right you are...my bad... I stand corrected ...evidently looking at season before...
It will only be fair though to compare the Maui team's results to this year's team once the season is complete...we must agree on that? And, I believe with the exception of T this current edition of the Cards stats will exceed that team...but we will need to wait. And, as we both have said this years Cards look to be deeper. But, I do not care about rankings from last year...I'm comparing this years team to Maui...and just for the record I did say while I believe this years team will prove to be better...I said best team we've put on the floor since Maui? No argument, right?
Relative to strength of schedule its got to be close with Virginia Tech, Purdue, possibly Alabama and WSU, and Loyola Chicago, Lipscomb, Valpo, etc.
This years Cards are going to be damn tough...I believe we actually agree on that too.
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Post by reevo on Sept 7, 2018 10:50:32 GMT -6
Sorry Reevo...right you are...my bad... I stand corrected ...evidently looking at season before... It will only be fair though to compare the Maui team's results to this year's team once the season is complete...we must agree on that? And, I believe with the exception of T this current edition of the Cards stats will exceed that team...but we will need to wait. And, as we both have said this years Cards look to be deeper. But, I do not care about rankings from last year...I'm comparing this years team to Maui...and just for the record I did say while I believe this years team will prove to be better...I said best team we've put on the floor since Maui? No argument, right? Relative to strength of schedule its got to be close with Virginia Tech, Purdue, possibly Alabama and WSU, and Loyola Chicago, Lipscomb, Valpo, etc. This years Cards are going to be damn tough...I believe we actually agree on that too. Not a problem. I am simply trying to point out how far we have fallen as well as the MAC overall. We have never played 13 top 100 teams in a year that I can recall and to be 500 is really pretty impressive. I am not saying this team does not have potential but we really are no where close from an overall talent standpoint to those day. We just simply are not. The problem for a lot of people on this Board is the fact we have been stuck seeing bad basketball for so long that when we do have better than average talent, it looks like we have made a big jump. The problem is our recruiting is honestly no where near where we used to be and that is a fact. The big difference is that we got athletes that were skilled back in the day. The kids we recruit now have holes. We also do not get top 100 kids anymore. You do realize that T.Smith was a top 50 kid when we got him? The only reason he ended up at BSU was because of his speech impediment and Buckley worked really hard with admissions to get him in. The kid was recruited by all of the top 20 programs but they backed off because they did not think they could get him enrolled. Williams was a top 100 recruit; Jackson was a top 150 recruit, Jones was a top 200 recruit and so on. Compare that to now: Walton was a top 150; Hazen top 250; Ish top 300, Persons top 350 and so on.
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Post by sweep on Feb 27, 2019 9:17:41 GMT -6
This is the best team BSU has put on the floor since Maui and arguably better and deeper. Whoops...................
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