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Post by cardfan on Jan 20, 2020 10:08:39 GMT -6
That’s what I’m saying. We don’t have the money. So we put used bandaids on things. In the the long run what will the Toledo’s of the MAC do when MAC football collapses due to budgets no long sustaining it? And it is not sustainable. Certainly not for the lower half of the schools.
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Post by 00hmh on Jan 20, 2020 10:28:41 GMT -6
We are all spending the funny money of student fees. That source is just an extra cost for the students at BSU. As on line enrollment increases we'll see lower revenues from student fees, and as the cutthroat competition for a declining number of HS grad admits continues, it predicts lower enrollment, and lower fees and lower revenues resulting for us to compete on price. I don't see where the money can come from longer term.
Higher ed is going to have a larger crisis that could choke the mid majors. Easy to see that higher education might cannibalize all the marginal small private schools. Still there will be great pressure on the mid majors. Right now we see Eastern Illinois is likely going to be shut down, here in Indiana which schools get cut off at the knees?
BSU should survive. But you can bet IU and PU and IUPUI will win the legislative fights for declining state funding. And, they will fight harder for the students who have gone to the directional state schools in the past.
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Post by redbirdman on Jan 20, 2020 11:35:38 GMT -6
I think you need to add Buffalo to schools that dream of moving up.If the American Athletic Conference looks to add another school Buffalo will be pushing to be that school & to me they are more likely to move than either Toledo or NIU.
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Post by 00hmh on Jan 20, 2020 12:23:15 GMT -6
I agree.
UB is even the strongest bet. They benefit from lack of competition and potential community attendance, not much competition for college football, urban area, and a fair number of alumni who stay in the area.
NIU really wants FB, has invested in it, but then Illinois is closest to bankruptcy of the states represented in the MAC. New stadium, alums in Chicago, reasonably affluent students from the West burbs may allow them to be high priced.
Akron and Kent and Toledo in Northern Ohio probably also have a large number of alumni staying in the area, but there is more competition for college football dollar. BG and OU not as well placed on either count. Miami is entirely different, invested in their more upscale liberal arts enrollment and some expensive grad programs but doesn't have the market or local alumni base of the Northern Ohio schools.
Ohio schools maybe all ahead of Michigan schools and BSU in terms of prospects for affluent student population and state commitment to the institutions.
I would expect Michigan to lose a directional school along the line, maybe 2 with EMU a strong candidate. Ohio schools could lose one too, but less likely to be cut.
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Post by 00hmh on Jan 20, 2020 12:35:33 GMT -6
There are several scenarios we have discussed for MAC FB. Longer term I don't see it in the same configuration. The schools are similar in academics and in athletics in most sports. MAC in some form makes sense.
Certainly college football could drastically change with a relatively NFL-lite level schools still there, and most MAC type conferences going down to D2 or D3 level with less funding. Or. Some big conference realignment is possible and some of our schools go to another conference slightly up, but below present major college FB.
Maybe it goes the way of MVC, with "optional" FB at the same level. It makes too much sense for most sports for at least half the schools to see it drop out of existence. For FB it seems more likely they downgrade and save a little money than drop the sport, depending on the economics of higher ed discussed above.
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Post by thebsukid on Jan 20, 2020 12:40:23 GMT -6
We're so bad we whipped em....Go Cards
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Post by 00hmh on Mar 8, 2020 9:02:51 GMT -6
That’s what I’m saying. We don’t have the money. So we put used bandaids on things. In the the long run what will the Toledo’s of the MAC do when MAC football collapses due to budgets no long sustaining it? And it is not sustainable. Certainly not for the lower half of the schools. I mentioned student fees above and how that impacts cost of college for students.
The estimate for BSU in the artcle is $879 per student. It is not all sports spending, so it's unclear what the "free" tickets cost or how much is proportionally spent on sports vs other supported causes. Of course as long as football is the loss leader any price resistance or any decline in students paying fees (such as online enrollment) really squeezes the FB budget most or forces dropping other sports.
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Post by chirpchirpcards on Mar 8, 2020 10:07:28 GMT -6
Student fees won't be the death knell of college athletics, it will be free tuition. Should Bernie, or another progressive, get elected in the next 8-12 years and implement their plan for free education, I imagine the first place colleges will look to cut budgets will be athletics. That will be felt across the country, as there are very few schools (almost none outside the P5) that can sustain an athletic budget without the help of govt support and student fees, both of which likely go bye bye if tuition becomes free for all students.
The private institutions like Butler will be untouched though, I believe.
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Post by Lurkin McGurkin on Mar 9, 2020 7:38:55 GMT -6
The private institutions like Butler will be untouched though, I believe. Who's gonna go to a private school, if publics are free?
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Post by Deleted on Mar 9, 2020 8:06:20 GMT -6
The private institutions like Butler will be untouched though, I believe. Who's gonna go to a private school, if publics are free? The same people who are now fleeing public education in K-12.
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Post by 00hmh on Mar 9, 2020 8:20:16 GMT -6
The private institutions like Butler will be untouched though, I believe. Who's gonna go to a private school, if publics are free? I agree there will private schools that close. Already happening.
Heavily endowed private schools with very high quality will still be attractive. Their scholarship students already pay less than they would at most public institutions. And the public schools quality will be hurt. People will pay for quality. Especially if public institutions can't maintain it with a big influx of students.
Quality for public will be an issue.
I would expect free tuition would be accompanied by a number of rules and regulations to prevent public schools from raising tuition. To maintain high quality they would need additional state funding. What are the odds of that for BSU, for example.
As a school like BSU adds students they would not be getting all the costs covered. That means lower quality and actually might require a great deal of additional state subsidy. My guess is the powerful big schools would win the fight to get more funding, they already have higher quality and as a result would cherry pick the private school students who are best qualified by raising or maintaining admissions standards.
My second guess is that the legislature would allow them to maintain high admission standards. This pushes less qualified students to the BSU level schools and lower or to an overburdened JC level. Lower quality students are more expensive if you try to maintain standards. They will not be able to.
Costs at lower quality schools don't go to zero for students either. There is no such thing as a free lunch. Free tuition does not mean free housing and many other costs.
To some extent the lower admission standards schools will be swamped by enrollment from those who now don't go to college, or are now in private schools but lower qualified. IMO our BSU budget would be busted if we tried to expand enrollment and to maintain quality. Our push for higher enrollment now is already lowering quality. I shudder to think what happens if we have to lower standards.
The whole scheme will have a lot of unintended consequences.
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Post by chirpchirpcards on Mar 9, 2020 8:22:49 GMT -6
The private institutions like Butler will be untouched though, I believe. Who's gonna go to a private school, if publics are free? Have you met the kind of people who live in, say, Carmel or Broad Ripple? They're who. Gotta rep that status, can't have their kids going to lowly FREE schools, pfft that's for the "middle class".
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Post by Deleted on Mar 9, 2020 8:34:45 GMT -6
Who's gonna go to a private school, if publics are free? Have you met the kind of people who live in, say, Carmel or Broad Ripple? They're who. Gotta rep that status, can't have their kids going to lowly FREE schools, pfft that's for the "middle class". Broad Ripple??? WTF?
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Post by chirpchirpcards on Mar 9, 2020 15:58:09 GMT -6
Have you met the kind of people who live in, say, Carmel or Broad Ripple? They're who. Gotta rep that status, can't have their kids going to lowly FREE schools, pfft that's for the "middle class". Broad Ripple??? WTF? The area around Butler, it may not exactly be Broad Ripple, but it's the neighborhood I most closely associate with Butler.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 9, 2020 20:06:50 GMT -6
The area around Butler, it may not exactly be Broad Ripple, but it's the neighborhood I most closely associate with Butler. Butler-Tarkington and Meridian-Kessler, not Broad Ripple.
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