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Post by 00hmh on Feb 13, 2018 14:45:33 GMT -6
I will quibble a little bit with that. Ray was able to get guys into BSU that Buck was NOT allowed to recruit. That's a fact. The reason Buck wasn't allowed to was because of the off court shenanigans and poor classroom performance of Ray's players. The administration, starting with Seeger and then Gora wanted it cleaned up. That said, Tim needed to adjust tactics and find a way around it and he couldn't do it. And as time went on he became more and more bitter, which did him no favors. I'm not defending his record or his failures, but I will defend his being handcuffed in terms of recruiting. He had guys ready to come that admissions said no to. A couple of them went on to star at Xavier. Good post. For everything I like about Ray, it is true he had problems. His record not withstanding, he probably was not quite ready to, given his commitment to those players, I think his intentions were good. But, at the least he did not adjust to changes that occurred in college basketball, not just at BSU either. Ironically a guy like Pitino was slick enough to get away with his practices right up until the present. Ray was open and honest, and unfortunately wrong on some of the decisions he made to allow problems to continue. Buckley was not exactly flexible either, did not or could not adjust, his job was harder because of those carry over problems. And there is no question BSU went further, faster to make changes. That may have been necessary, and even a good thing. But, Buckley was in the cross hairs after Ray.
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Post by cardfan on Feb 13, 2018 14:57:50 GMT -6
We had Ray bailing guys like Jerome Davis out of jail in the middle of the night after Davis was busted for selling drugs. And it was known in the athletic department before the arrest that Davis was a heavy consumer of his product. Lamont Roland had his well known issues. Duane Clemons. Etc. Tracy Dildy told me the staff sweated semester grades every year on a bunch of guys. Buck paid for that. Now, Tim did know he was brought in with the mandate to clean things up so he knew what he was getting into, other than the ridiculously tight admissions policy Gora and Waters instituted after Tim took over.
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Post by williamtsherman on Feb 13, 2018 15:39:01 GMT -6
Buckley choose job security through obsequiousness, and got what he deserved.
To crush the program like they did, it was necessary to have a docile, submissive coach like Buckley. Who knows? If Buckley hadn't done it maybe somebody else would have. But, back then, there was an actual fanbase that would have supported a coach with some balls. As it was, Buckley had a large and very shameful role in taking BSU basketball from what it was to what it now is. Fuck him.
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Post by reevo on Feb 13, 2018 15:53:48 GMT -6
I will quibble a little bit with that. Ray was able to get guys into BSU that Buck was NOT allowed to recruit. That's a fact. The reason Buck wasn't allowed to was because of the off court shenanigans and poor classroom performance of Ray's players. The administration, starting with Seeger and then Gora wanted it cleaned up. That said, Tim needed to adjust tactics and find a way around it and he couldn't do it. And as time went on he became more and more bitter, which did him no favors. I'm not defending his record or his failures, but I will defend his being handcuffed in terms of recruiting. He had guys ready to come that admissions said no to. A couple of them went on to star at Xavier. You are 100% correct. It was Buckley that found T.Smith, not Ray. Buckley would have never been allowed to admit Theron once Gora took over. Buckley was a good communicator and had a good eye for talent. I somewhat agree with Sherm as I thought he should have been more vocal. He tried with a select few of us alums but we were not enough to make a difference. The restrictions were just ridiculous looking back at it now. I would have loved to see what our record would have been if guys who committed to us, Stanly Burrell & Justin Cage to name a few were admitted. Those guys led Xavier to the NCAA tournament twice.
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Post by cardfan on Feb 13, 2018 16:14:29 GMT -6
Yep
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Post by 00hmh on Feb 13, 2018 16:48:42 GMT -6
Not sure we wanted to go quite as far as X did with some of their recruiting, they would not do what they did back then now, for example.
But, I sure would have like Buckley being more understanding of the academic issues and effective dealing with the administration. That communication on both sides was not a strong point, and led to lots of frustration on both sides of the dispute. I saw a fair amount of that dispute first hand.
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Post by Hoopsmith on Feb 13, 2018 20:34:20 GMT -6
I will quibble a little bit with that. Ray was able to get guys into BSU that Buck was NOT allowed to recruit. That's a fact. The reason Buck wasn't allowed to was because of the off court shenanigans and poor classroom performance of Ray's players. The administration, starting with Seeger and then Gora wanted it cleaned up. That said, Tim needed to adjust tactics and find a way around it and he couldn't do it. And as time went on he became more and more bitter, which did him no favors. I'm not defending his record or his failures, but I will defend his being handcuffed in terms of recruiting. He had guys ready to come that admissions said no to. A couple of them went on to star at Xavier. You are 100% correct. It was Buckley that found T.Smith, not Ray. Buckley would have never been allowed to admit Theron once Gora took over. Buckley was a good communicator and had a good eye for talent. I somewhat agree with Sherm as I thought he should have been more vocal. He tried with a select few of us alums but we were not enough to make a difference. The restrictions were just ridiculous looking back at it now. I would have loved to see what our record would have been if guys who committed to us, Stanly Burrell & Justin Cage to name a few were admitted. Those guys led Xavier to the NCAA tournament twice. I have also heard Buckley had a verbal from Matt Howard, who ended up committing to Butler when Buckley was fired. Not sure if that is correct or not, but I will give that the guy could recruit and sold the program (alumni nights, etc.) fairly well. However, he was a shoddy X's and O's coach and his over-coaching style caused several players to regress (REO, McCollom) in their time here. Of course, the two coaches who followed him make Buck look like the second coming of Coach K.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 13, 2018 23:38:03 GMT -6
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Post by 00hmh on Feb 14, 2018 6:56:50 GMT -6
Would like to get another shot at Miami, would not be all that happy against Eastern.
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Post by cardfan on Feb 14, 2018 10:57:42 GMT -6
I cannot see us beating buffalo (but the Moses/Teague thing makes it more interesting) but if the bracket works out that we at least make it to the champ game I’d be pretty happy with that. Next year is truly the year. We do need another 2 guard and an inside banger/strong paint defender.
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Post by 00hmh on Feb 14, 2018 11:32:54 GMT -6
I cannot see us beating buffalo (but the Moses/Teague thing makes it more interesting) but if the bracket works out that we at least make it to the champ game I’d be pretty happy with that. Next year is truly the year. We do need another 2 guard and an inside banger/strong paint defender. Outside shooting now a priority almost as much as inside depth. We have added athleticism. Any time we can add a good inside player we have to. Huggins might be able to cover the needs, but the lead time and uncertainty on almost all big guys means we can't pass on a good recruit. But should we find another shooter we will just make Trey and Teague even better. Looks like two scholarships, could be Josh is getting one? Good 5th year players might find this team an attractive opportunity? Player development still important. Freshmen will improve, but how much could make a big difference. Teague can be scary good with decent outside shooting and can still add muscle. Trey had some development time lost this year, if he has another good summer, he could end up with a career that is right up there with some very good BSU big men.
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