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Post by rmcalhoun on Feb 25, 2018 20:02:05 GMT -6
They all freaking cheat if you go by the rule book. I know as a coach and a guy who was involved with bigger AAU programs. It is a cess pool. The NCAA picks and chooses who to punish to make it look like they are doing something. It used to be coaches would hide behind the big alumni who would pay big dollars to kids. The coaches would basically say take care of the kid and I don’t want to know about it. It still goes on but now the money is larger with the sneaker companies and the agents. UCLA and John Wooden had the dirtiest program of their era and everyone new. John Wooden was so respected by most that everyone looked the other way. I have nothing personal against Coach Whitford but to think he does not know or was not involved in the shenanigans that was and is going on in his time at Xavier and Arizona is nuts. I do agree with you all as this is a hit piece by Davis. You absolutely right some degree of cheating goes on at every college you have to be in complete denial if you think it does not
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Post by lmills72 on Feb 25, 2018 20:28:31 GMT -6
I tend not to want things like college sports to change, but as others have noted this has been going on for a very long time and just keeps getting worse it seems. The level of impropriety and the NCAA's unwillingness or inability to maintain the standards it has put in place has me ready to say it's time to do away with the idea of the student-athlete.
Let's just have university sponsored teams. Have the kids sign contracts that will pay them the equivalent of one year's room and board and tuition at the school. What the kid does with that money is up to them. They can go to school or they can sit in their room and play video games or spend it on alcohol and strippers. Hell, a financially prudent athlete might decide to go to trade school or Ivy Tech, where they can get a skill or a career for a fraction of the cost of their general studies BSU degree.
There will still be coaches and boosters who will spend that extra $100,000 for a 5-star kid, but at least we'll have gotten rid of this pretense of the amateur student-athlete purity.
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Post by cardfan on Feb 25, 2018 20:37:43 GMT -6
That’s some food for thought. The major issue as it relates to the bsu level schools is we could not pay and have never been able to pay the extra amounts beyond what a scholarship costs to obtain and retain top athletes. We can’t get them as it is, but the power 5 teams would just buy or “employ” all the best players no one outside of them would get any. The playing field wouldn’t be remotely level if the ncaa went market or employee based. We’d all be meh level teams, if we fielded teams at all.
The side of this players haven’t considered? Taxes!! Getting “fired.” All those employment/compensation based issues that arise.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 25, 2018 21:01:17 GMT -6
I tend not to want things like college sports to change, but as others have noted this has been going on for a very long time and just keeps getting worse it seems. The level of impropriety and the NCAA's unwillingness or inability to maintain the standards it has put in place has me ready to say it's time to do away with the idea of the student-athlete. Let's just have university sponsored teams. Have the kids sign contracts that will pay them the equivalent of one year's room and board and tuition at the school. What the kid does with that money is up to them. They can go to school or they can sit in their room and play video games or spend it on alcohol and strippers. Hell, a financially prudent athlete might decide to go to trade school or Ivy Tech, where they can get a skill or a career for a fraction of the cost of their general studies BSU degree. There will still be coaches and boosters who will spend that extra $100,000 for a 5-star kid, but at least we'll have gotten rid of this pretense of the amateur student-athlete purity. No. Don't waste the university's time and resources. Create a minor league development system similar to baseball. If you want to go to college, you go to college. If you just want to ball, then just got the development league route. Don't waste the university's time and resources.
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Post by lmills72 on Feb 25, 2018 21:05:57 GMT -6
Actually the Power 5 schools would lose out to the Ivy League under my proposal since the cost of going to an Ivy League school is so much higher than, say, Georgia. The Ivy League would be where the big paydays are.
Really, I don't know how it might work but I doubt the playing field is going to be any more skewed than it is now.
Plus, as I think more about it there's a bit of a disservice being done to the kids to force them into this 4-year college mold just because they're good athletes. Maybe, at one time, that was doing kids a favor, but I don't think that's the case anymore. If you look at the number of athletes whose academic "focus" is general studies, I think its fair to think several might be better off if their education dollars were spent becoming an plumber's or carpenter's apprentice, or maybe becoming a nurse or IT person, all of which are good decent-paying careers that don't require a 4-year college education.
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Post by lmills72 on Feb 25, 2018 21:08:59 GMT -6
I tend not to want things like college sports to change, but as others have noted this has been going on for a very long time and just keeps getting worse it seems. The level of impropriety and the NCAA's unwillingness or inability to maintain the standards it has put in place has me ready to say it's time to do away with the idea of the student-athlete. Let's just have university sponsored teams. Have the kids sign contracts that will pay them the equivalent of one year's room and board and tuition at the school. What the kid does with that money is up to them. They can go to school or they can sit in their room and play video games or spend it on alcohol and strippers. Hell, a financially prudent athlete might decide to go to trade school or Ivy Tech, where they can get a skill or a career for a fraction of the cost of their general studies BSU degree. There will still be coaches and boosters who will spend that extra $100,000 for a 5-star kid, but at least we'll have gotten rid of this pretense of the amateur student-athlete purity. No. Don't waste the university's time and resources. Create a minor league development system similar to baseball. If you want to go to college, you go to college. If you just want to ball, then just got the development league route. Don't waste the university's time and resources. But you're wasting the university's time and resources now. You're just rationalizing the use of that time and resources by calling them "student athletes." And, as others have pointed out, this is a dirty business all over. You're holding on to some concept of purity that no longer exists.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 25, 2018 22:00:30 GMT -6
No. Don't waste the university's time and resources. Create a minor league development system similar to baseball. If you want to go to college, you go to college. If you just want to ball, then just got the development league route. Don't waste the university's time and resources. But you're wasting the university's time and resources now. You're just rationalizing the use of that time and resources by calling them "student athletes." And, as others have pointed out, this is a dirty business all over. You're holding on to some concept of purity that no longer exists. No. Since emphasis on offering a minor league (development) option for players who really don't give a shit about class time has never been offered, as it has in professional baseball, we do not know the outcome. Offer a professional option outside of higher ed, and let the talent get paid. If they want an education, actually go to classes, and commit to four years of classwork while playing basketball, then let them go the college route. Just stop wasting time building programs around players who'd rather get paid and not go to classes. That goes for any college sport.
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Post by gocardsgo on Feb 25, 2018 23:42:20 GMT -6
As the G-League gets bigger I think there's a real possibility of the NBA somewhat following the mold of the MLB. Players can come out of high school and get paid straight away ending up either in the NBA or G-League, or they can choose to go to college. But if they go to college they have cannot go pro for three years or something like that.
And you increase the NBA draft by one or two rounds to accommodate
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Post by williamtsherman on Feb 26, 2018 7:10:58 GMT -6
Yea it used to be Boosters and while some of that still goes on the stakes have been raised and now its AAU/Shoes/agents. Im sure there are still and will always be 100 dollar handshakes but boosters are not much of a concern anymore I would speculate that the cheating that does go on at the mid-major level is still booster financed. Nike and Adidas are not going to have any interest in MAC recruits. I suppose some MAC players eventually need an agent to help set up their contract in Estonia, but the margins there must be pretty small. But even perpetually mediocre, nowhere programs like BSU still have a few excitable, and not overly bright, boosters who might have a few hundred to spare.
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Post by redbirdman on Feb 26, 2018 9:13:42 GMT -6
Good example on Ivy League Basketball in 2010 Cornell got to the NCAA Final 16. Take a look at how many players majored in Agriculture. I did not know until then that it was the NY state ag school. Ag must have been the easiest major I was amazed how many of their inner city kids majored in ag. Oh well no basket weaving there.
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Post by gocardsgo on Feb 26, 2018 23:31:32 GMT -6
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Post by bsu0 on Feb 27, 2018 10:46:38 GMT -6
If Ball State boosters are paying this team you have to question their judgement. I would rather spend my ''few hundred'' on weenies and watch the NBA on Saturday night.
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Post by 00hmh on Feb 27, 2018 11:00:04 GMT -6
If Ball State boosters are paying this team you have to question their judgement. I would rather spend my ''few hundred'' on weenies and watch the NBA on Saturday night. Please do. I see no reason for you to waste time here with gratuitous insults to the players feeling the way you do.
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Post by bsu0 on Feb 27, 2018 20:10:22 GMT -6
I just call a spade a spade but I have NEVER CALLED OUT ANY INDIVIDUAL PLAYERS. Mostly I have been critical of an over paid coach for mediocre results. If he can't take it too bad he should not be in the coaching business.
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Post by 00hmh on Feb 28, 2018 7:56:54 GMT -6
I just call a spade a spade but I have NEVER CALLED OUT ANY INDIVIDUAL PLAYERS. Mostly I have been critical of an over paid coach for mediocre results. If he can't take it too bad he should not be in the coaching business. Your post makes no reference to the coach, only mentions players. It certainly seemed to criticize ALL the players, so not naming names is a feeble defense of the criticism.
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