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Post by Deleted on Feb 29, 2020 8:44:50 GMT -6
Not sure what your "fetish" is. You from on high call someone mediocre who's been good or excellent at every stop. Who is doing more good things here than past ADs. The department is changed for the better and now has a much better chance to overcome it's problems and accomplish things than we she arrived. You do this without much if any first hand contact or observation of her at work. Why? Because she won't try the lunatic Sherman Plan? Wants to move on to a better job than this place? I call that damned smart. Excellent plan. You just need to take the 'L' on this and move on. You says she's been good and excellent then describe safe and mediocre. Besides she is young and this job is about her NEXT job. She is not going to do much that is really really boldThis is literally what every AD since forever at Ball State has done. Could Calhoun possibly put up a poll to allow folks to predict how many months this AD will stay in Muncie? Better yet, is their a line at the casino in Anderson to take bets?
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Post by 00hmh on Feb 29, 2020 9:01:20 GMT -6
Right Mills. No evidence at all that this AD knows what she is doing?
Worked successfully in a good department at Butler, a well run operation. What she did there earned a job at a Big 10 school where she was chosen from a fairly large number of people to be interim AD when they needed that.
Not a candidate for the top job, but with high visibility and a good record to put on the vita she moved to another big department to a better job.
These are all much better departments with much better leadership than BSU has had and they all chose her from good candidate pools based on her performance. She was the best candidate for our job. And I do not think our President is incompetent, and I don't think this was JAG choosing the person she thought would be a yes man.
Here, some of us have watched her work day to day. Whether it is fund raising, working to make the practice facility a reality, replace coaches who have left, which are all directly related to things fans are interested in or whether doing the dirty work like the community relations, management of staff, choosing new hires she has done everything in a quality way. She matches or exceeds what any AD in 40 years has done.
This job has not been easy, although she did not have the very difficult task of working for JAG. The University has cut budgets, it has faced changes at the NCAA. She has had personnel losses. Had to retrain and move some people from what they were doing since we could not hire replacements. Hired to overhaul the department she has done so. Deny if you want, but I an others say she is doing well.
OK. we have one opinion this was all really easy. That we could have hired a temp firm to do the job, since it was only a matter of a few weeks "nosing around" find some deadwood. Voila, we're done. I respectfully, well with a little respect, disagree. The truth is it is hard to fire people at BSU, top to bottom in the organization, since for the most part we pay so poorly we cannot fill jobs when they are open. As it is we haven't even had that as we've had budget cuts during her time here. That temp firm trying to find deadwood could do that part, maybe anyone could...but I have no confidence they would be able to reorganize and move the pieces available to make things work. That takes good management longer term. Goetz is doing that.
She has done a solid job and we should appreciate her. The insinuation made above that she was a no talent affirmative action hire is ridiculous. There should be an apology for that.
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Post by 00hmh on Feb 29, 2020 9:07:00 GMT -6
OK, now expecting the usual argument in response that I should go away and stop saying anything positive until we have a championship in BB. After all, that is the true measure and to some all that counts...and to some it is incontrovertible I should give up the argument because she is a failure and a mediocre since she hasn't had the home run of winning that high visibility championship?
The President is certainly not giving the AD extra resources to invest in what is needed to do that. I for one do not see how anyone can ignore that. But then I understand we have a range of opinion extending to the the lunatic idea that a fan forum poster could do better, do amazing things with a HS coach and prayer. I won't convince those folks. I give up on that. But I have to say that when you are given a lineup of singles hitters that isn't as easy as they think. And, sorry all, the AD job is a lot less about winning championships than that group seems to think. If you don't want to hear that, ignore it.
I will agree that is fair enough to be upset about athletics results in the more visible sports, we all are. OTOH we are not so totally a failure on the field either. A number of sports have done well.
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Post by 00hmh on Feb 29, 2020 9:18:10 GMT -6
You just need to take the 'L' on this and move on. You says she's been good and excellent then describe safe and mediocre. Could Calhoun possibly put up a poll to allow folks to predict how many months this AD will stay in Muncie? Better yet, is their a line at the casino in Anderson to take bets? You have a good point.
Bubba did that, our hire from ND who took the job as his last job did so. Neither poorly qualified or mediocre ability. Even Sandy did this after a fairly good record before BSU, and he retired only to end up back on the job.
Gee. I wonder why?
Maybe this job is not such an easy one. Maybe it isn't all about them being mediocre when they don't meet our expectation of sports dominance.
My guess is Goetz gets an offer she would be crazy to turn down, and leaves. Much of that will depend on her not making any serious blunder here. Like hiring a HS coach in BB. Most of it will be based on her good qualifications and a good record here given a tough job.
We will be lucky to do as well next time.
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Post by williamtsherman on Feb 29, 2020 9:38:57 GMT -6
Funny, in all that verbiage, not one single example of how she did a "good or excellent job at every stop". Not that I'm surprised, I had already guessed what the situation is: somebody told you that (someone who probably has a vested interest in its being true), and that's what you wanted to believe anyway, so as far as you're concerned, it's a fact. Problem is that by operating this way, your stance fell apart as soon as you stray outside the circle of people who all want to believe the same thing.
"She matches or exceeds what any AD in 40 years has done"
Oh, for f------ crying out loud.
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Post by lmills72 on Feb 29, 2020 10:01:34 GMT -6
The trouble with 00 isn't that he's necessarily picked the wrong side in this argument. The problem is that he's done such pathetic job of making his arguments.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 29, 2020 10:06:59 GMT -6
Words that you will never hear spoken by a Ball State AD - "Ball State Athletics was my dream job. I am so glad to be here. I never plan on leaving."
This is definitely a tough gig, by circumstance and by design (the Administration is always a challenge). I doubt that anyone can ever point out enough positives by a BSU AD to match those of another program.
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Post by 00hmh on Feb 29, 2020 10:12:55 GMT -6
The trouble with 00 isn't that he's necessarily picked the wrong side in this argument. The problem is that he's done such pathetic job of making his arguments. Pathetic? I err only in being open to see the good things and then make the admittedly dreadful assumption others might see that without mathematically precise proof.
This is just a tough house to make any positive comment about BSU sports.
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Post by williamtsherman on Feb 29, 2020 10:18:00 GMT -6
If you're not willing to have a much needed effect on football and basketball, what is the point in you being the BSU AD?
Well, from a personal perspective, I guess it's a stepping stone in your diversity fueled rise up the ladder, but what is BSU's interest in this situation? Other than basketball and football, being AD just involves administering a money transfer from other students to scholarship athletes. It's a fairly difficult thing to really screw up. Oh, I suppose it has certain challenges, but it's not much different (or much more interesting) than being the head of facility maintenance or something like that. If, say for example, the women's soccer team goes on a 700 game losing streak, who would notice?
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Post by cardfan on Feb 29, 2020 10:19:37 GMT -6
The lack of resources part is absolutely true no matter who the AD is. That’s why you see football promoting GA’s to QB coach, the RB coach to offensive coordinator, the linebackers coach to DC. No money for stronger hires.
The athletic department has undergone reorganization under Beth. Retirements are not backfilled with new hires, pieces were just moved around. No money.
I know Beth has personally reached out to fans to get their input. That’s already more than previous AD’s have done. She’s far more visible and available.
How effective she can be overall in the BSU climate is yet to be seen. There is no REAL support. Sure Mearns talks a good game but championships and what it takes to get them are not a priority. We’re undergoing a transition to a new budget model. It’s been brutal. It’s not gonna be pretty, especially for Athletics. I bet if Beth could be honest she would say she had no idea what she was walking into in terms of the lack of resources. Sure, the administration would love to win, but you have to win on a shoestring budget. You’re not gonna get more resources. Not now. Beth really is doing what she can with what’s she’s got. I think she’d love to make the basketball program stronger. I think she’d replace Whitford if he comes up short again this year. I also think she’ll be told there’s no money to do it.
If I had to guess I’d say she’ll stay one more year and then she’s out.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 29, 2020 10:25:11 GMT -6
If you're not willing to have a much needed effect on football and basketball, what is the point in you being the BSU AD? Well, from a personal perspective, I guess it's a stepping stone in your diversity fueled rise up the ladder, but what is BSU's interest in this situation? Other than basketball and football, being AD just involves administering a money transfer from other students to scholarship athletes. It's a fairly difficult thing to really screw up. Oh, I suppose it has certain challenges, but it's not much different (or much more interesting) than being the head of facility maintenance or something like that. If, say for example, the women's soccer team goes on a 700 game losing streak, who would notice? So any actions not in line with the doctrine of General Sherman are inadequate. Not surprised.
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Post by lmills72 on Feb 29, 2020 10:26:40 GMT -6
The trouble with 00 isn't that he's necessarily picked the wrong side in this argument. The problem is that he's done such pathetic job of making his arguments. Pathetic? I err only in being open to see the good things and then make the admittedly dreadful assumption others might see that without mathematically precise proof.
This is just a tough house to make any positive comment about BSU sports. No, your problem is your fair lady was attacked and you spent two pages whining about it before even coming close to a something amounting to a cogent defense. You're a shitty champion.
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Post by 00hmh on Feb 29, 2020 10:47:58 GMT -6
Funny, in all that verbiage, not one single example of how she did a "good or excellent job at every stop". As opposed to calling her out as mediocre and an affirmative action hire without much or any basis? You cite none.
And of course what anybody here might have seen first hand you dismiss.
In absence of any home runs, without any specifics at all, there a pretty obvious argument based on her working at a series of jobs, none easy to get, where she did well enough not only consistently satisfy her management, but based on very specific accomplishment she could document compete for and win better jobs at a higher salary at another good department.
This is more a case of your making an off hand criticism without much knowledge.
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Post by 00hmh on Feb 29, 2020 11:14:41 GMT -6
This is just a tough house to make any positive comment about BSU sports. No, your problem is your fair lady was attacked and you spent two pages whining about it before even coming close to a something amounting to a cogent defense. Whatever my failings may be, she is doing well at a tough job.
I did not see you or anyone else jump in with any better response to an overstatement. Nor, did I see anyone even dare criticize the opposing army's general for his dismissal of her as a mediocre affirmative action hire.
Are you sure YOU are champion for the right cause here? While I do appreciate the part where you say cogent defense, it sure seems to me before this post you ran a risk of being the champion of groundless cheap shot, not just an objective commentator, in your critique of my opinion.
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Post by williamtsherman on Feb 29, 2020 11:19:00 GMT -6
So, your evidence that she hasn't been promoted on affirmative actions grounds is....that she's been promoted.
Yes, the absence of a football or basketball home run IS the grounds on which I judge a BSU AD a failure. Because each program is some combination of financial disaster and missed opportunity, and a home run is desperately needed. And there is very very little importance in anything else you might do.
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