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Post by cardfan on Sept 30, 2019 18:24:36 GMT -6
Part of the equation might be all the donor money for the stadium. If bsu were to go in a direction that displeases the big donors, does bsu get asked to refund big gifts?
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Post by 00hmh on Sept 30, 2019 20:00:35 GMT -6
Part of the equation might be all the donor money for the stadium. If bsu were to go in a direction that displeases the big donors, does bsu get asked to refund big gifts? Not exactly...at least no legal demand is possible. But in the interest of good will, it might be an argument to give FCS a try when FBS is not at all feasible. Then big time intramural flag football? Or more likely mens soccer.
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Post by cedarpointer on Oct 1, 2019 18:35:34 GMT -6
i really don’t see a decline in the sport or any program until some groundbreaking study comes out about safety or parents stop letting their kids play. There are so many levels of football to still keep a program for a long time. I just think FCS would b a better fit overall for the conference or even D2. I think we would stroll draw the same amount of fans or buzz at games regardless of division.
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Post by rmcalhoun on Oct 1, 2019 18:47:04 GMT -6
I have been involved with Muncie Metro Football for about 4 years now. Metro is the largest youth football program in Muncie. Numbers are going down in youth tackle football parents just are not comfortable sending their 3 4 5 6 grade kids out to play tackle football. Its also getting harder to find insurance for youth leagues and even high schools are feeling the crunch as premiums skyrocket.
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Post by officerfarva on Oct 3, 2019 9:18:14 GMT -6
You need to familiarize yourself with incognito browser I tried that and still no luck Yeah, after years of that being the backdoor entrance to paid content, they seem to have figured it out. No longer an option.
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Post by rmcalhoun on Oct 3, 2019 10:25:29 GMT -6
They are proud of how Ball State’s football players, and all Cardinals athletes for that matter, compete against their opponents and commit to their studies. They are proud of how they represent their program and those who follow it. They are optimistic about the future. But despite whatever improvements may have been made on the field the past few years, despite what President Geoffrey S. Mearns and Director of Athletics Beth Goetz pledge in support of head coach Mike Neu’s program, the financial backing it needs from the institution isn’t trending to change much moving forward.
Ball State’s football program is not self-sustaining, and Mearns, who joined BSU in May 2017, and Goetz, who joined BSU in June 2018, understand the significant financial commitment it takes to run it and the athletic department as a whole brings about a question — is supporting the football program worth it?
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Regardless of whether or not people complain with that in mind, and some do, it’s a question they grapple with on their own. And with what they believe the program adds to the university, with how they believe it operates in comparison to the rest of the Mid-American Conference, Mearns and Goetz are confident with its place in the department and school.
“Given the dynamic and the context of where we compete,” Mearns said, “to focus only on the financial picture and say, is it successful? (That) is not paying attention to the way in which we define success for our athletics programs.”
Public records requests for annual financial reports filed with the NCAA showed Ball State’s athletic department reported $28,634,103 in revenue and $28,443,728 in expenses in its 2018 report (+$190,375), $26,098,565 in revenue and $27,410,745 in expenses in its 2017 report (-$1,312,180), and $25,542,539 in revenue and $27,226,309 in expenses in its 2016 report (-$1,683,770).
The football program’s sport-specific average those three years is $5,552,208 more in expenses than revenue.
It’s $1,975,692 in revenue compared to $7,426,787 in expenses in the 2018 report (-$5,451,095). It’s $1,042,593 in revenue compared to $7,755,536 in expenses in the 2017 report (-$6,712,943). And it’s $2,796,261 in revenue compared to $7,288,847 in expenses in the 2016 report (-$4,492,586).
Football might collect more in sport-specific operating revenue than every other sport combined each time. However, each time its sport-specific operating expenses makes up just more than a quarter of the department’s overall expenses. Student fees revenue of $13.3 million the past two reports and $12,860,500 the report before those, in addition to other institution-driven revenue streams, enable the department to report as much revenue overall as it does.
Goetz and Mearns would caution, though, that this all should be viewed in the context of the MAC and MAC-like conferences — not stacked up against how the likes of an Indiana University in the Big Ten does. They say non-Power Five athletic departments on average generate about 25 percent of their overall revenue, that that’s the realm Ball State operates.
Goetz also said the revenue Ball State receives from the MAC, $1,675,008 in the 2018 report, is as high as it is in part because of BSU's place as a football member. And Mearns said the $15 million indoor practice facility that will be built to benefit the football team and department as a whole, a facility funded through donations, would not have been something they ever asked tax payers or students to pay for. Would it be great to balance in football or men’s basketball? It really would. And I think we want to aspire to that every day,” Goetz said. “I’m not sure we are in a model that exists at our level where that is easily achievable. Doesn’t mean we won’t aspire to get there, but the model looks different.”
Todd Turner, a former athletic director at the University of Connecticut, North Carolina State University, Vanderbilt University and the University of Washington, is the president of an executive search and consulting firm called Collegiate Sports Associates. He said he’s consulted for a number of MAC schools and that anywhere from 60 to 80 percent of their budget revenue is provided by the institution.
Public records requests for the 2018 financial reports filed with the NCAA for the University at Buffalo, Western Michigan University and Ohio University, when compared with Ball State’s, create a range that helps support Turner's statement. WMU’s football program also had a reported $5,023,514 more in expenses than revenue, similar to BSU’s average the past three years.
Ohio’s football program had more reported revenue than expenses and Buffalo’s broke even, but their departments divvied up institutional revenue streams to specific programs, which contributed to that occurring. Ball State and Western Michigan did not do that in their reports.
“Schools choose to support their athletic programs for a variety of reasons, to help them with student recruitment, to build branding, brand identity, to connect with alumni and the community,” Turner said. “There’s all kinds of reasons why schools find investing in athletics to be an appropriate part of the institutional expense budget.”
He would add: “It’s part of doing business at schools that compete at that level without 100,000 seat Ohio State football stadium they fill up every year, every week. It’s hard for them to compete financially. So, institutions invest in those programs to support their students.”
Turner said it’s hard for him to make a judgment as to whether or not its worth it for a school such as Ball State to support its football program as it's up to the institution to decide what it means to its identity, but in support of Ball State’s football program Mearns uses many of the reasons Turner did. And Turner said himself it’s not fair to use finances as the only measure of value.
Because there’s no set metric, no checklist of boxes to check off to prove the program’s worth it despite the financial issues, once Mearns makes his and Goetz’s point about how Ball State operates in comparison to similar institutions, how it’s in that way he assesses financial success, he then points out the three ways he judges success for an athletic program.
When he speaks with coaches, their athletes, the board of trustees or the entire university community, he explains he determines whether there’s success or failure based on classroom performance, if the team brings attention to the institution and how — such as BSU’s appearances against IU and Notre Dame in significant venues the past two years — and how the team competes athletically.
Ball State announced in May its highest cumulative GPA for a semester in at least 10 years for its athletes, 3.27, although that was led on the men’s side by the volleyball team as it was on the women’s side. Just this past week redshirt senior offensive lineman Danny Pinter earned a spot as one of 30 candidates for the Senior CLASS Award and redshirt senior wide receiver Riley Miller a spot as a semifinalist for the William V. Campbell Trophy. Both honor more than just someone’s pay on the field. And in terms of on-field success — at the time of the interview with the Star Press Ball State had yet to play Florida Atlantic University — Mearns said there was “slow but steady progress there.”
“We believe we’ve provided the resources for football to be successful — and again, successful broadly, not defined simply by financial success,” said Mearns, a former college athlete just like Goetz. “We set those expectations for every one of our coaches, for every one of our deans and department chairs. While the success may be defined differently depending upon your job description, that’s why our No. 1 value is a commitment to excellence.”
Mearns said in his previous stop as president of Northern Kentucky University, a school without a football team, he was often asked when it would start one.
Goetz brought up Ball State’s place as a longtime football member for the MAC and how long the school has had a football program.
Both understand that someone might not want to support it by way of student fees or another manner, but to that, in addition to his stated reasons, Mearns would say a student who enrolls at the school is “participating broadly” and that the resources they provide help foster all kinds of opportunities.
“Not every student will enjoy athletics,” Mearns said. “Not every student will go see our outstanding theater and dance and orchestra perform.”
In regards to supporting the latter mentioned organizations, Mearns said, “Why do we do it? Because of the intrinsic quality of those activities and the experience for those students and because it draws people to our campus or when they perform in other venues.”
Goetz said Ball State will continue to attack the gap between revenue and expenses that exists for the football program and department as a whole, and Mearns commended her handling of the budget since she joined the university. This is just where Ball State sees itself at the moment.
Turner agrees with the comparison Mearns made.
“That’s really the primary justification for doing it,” Turner said.
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Post by 00hmh on Oct 3, 2019 10:57:52 GMT -6
I am shocked at this blatant copyright violation.
But then I am shocked the local rag doesn't provide this content for free. Especially puzzling decision since the local crime news which is closely followed by Sherm and cardfan12 is provided for free. There is the content behind a paywall that will attract subscribers.
Sherm and cardfan12 surely aren't going to pay for news about BSU administrators and their support for football.
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Post by rmcalhoun on Oct 3, 2019 11:19:53 GMT -6
I am shocked at this blatant copyright violation. But then I am shocked the local rag doesn't provide this content for free. Especially puzzling decision since the local crime news which is closely followed by Sherm and cardfan12 is provided for free. There is the content behind a paywall that will attract subscribers. Sherm and cardfan12 surely aren't going to pay for news about BSU administrators and their support for football. Im shocked that they get in here on print my ideas as their own so to the hell with them
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Post by williamtsherman on Oct 3, 2019 12:30:16 GMT -6
The academic success argument is as lame as all their other arguments. If you gave me $5-$10 million to spend each year, I could find a group of 60 students to bring on campus whose academic record and accomplishments would crush that of any ncaa football team that ever existed.
As I already knew, that sort of article is not any justification for subscribing to the SP. Now, Douglas Walker's local crime articles, on the other hand, are worth something. How does that guy not have a Pulitzer yet?
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Post by rmcalhoun on Oct 3, 2019 12:40:28 GMT -6
The academic success argument is as lame as all their other arguments. If you gave me $5-$10 million to spend each year, I could find a group of 60 students to bring on campus whose academic record and accomplishments would crush that of any ncaa football team that ever existed.
As I already knew, that sort of article is not any justification for subscribing to the SP. Now, Douglas Walker's local crime articles, on the other hand, are worth something. How does that guy not have a Pulitzer yet? you did not even thank me for breaking the law.. Dick
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Post by williamtsherman on Oct 3, 2019 12:42:34 GMT -6
The academic success argument is as lame as all their other arguments. If you gave me $5-$10 million to spend each year, I could find a group of 60 students to bring on campus whose academic record and accomplishments would crush that of any ncaa football team that ever existed.
As I already knew, that sort of article is not any justification for subscribing to the SP. Now, Douglas Walker's local crime articles, on the other hand, are worth something. How does that guy not have a Pulitzer yet? you did not even thank me for breaking the law.. Dick Not only that, hell I called up the SP to turn you in. You'll soon be the subject of a Douglas Walker article.
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Post by rmcalhoun on Oct 3, 2019 12:59:29 GMT -6
you did not even thank me for breaking the law.. Dick Not only that, hell I called up the SP to turn you in. You'll soon be the subject of a Douglas Walker article. Awesome when the law comes to get me im going to pelt them with raw hot dogs so I can make the free paper
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Post by 00hmh on Oct 3, 2019 14:19:18 GMT -6
you did not even thank me for breaking the law.. Dick Not only that, hell I called up the SP to turn you in. You'll soon be the subject of a Douglas Walker article. Fame and recognition at last! Unfortunately, he can only wish to be immortalized in Muncie "Hall of Shame / Person of the Year" thread with a tame offense like this.
Well, absent any much more significantly stupid behavior. I don't expect the federal law enforcement to have to rescue him hanging from a second story balcony by one foot, for example. Although the element of related alcohol consumption may be present, and he did incriminate himself subsequently, still there was no public nudity, methamphetamine, mindless violence, video capture, or RC and Vodka mixture to put it over the top.
Perhaps, there is some chance if when confronted by the Federal authorities he not only pelts them with hot dogs, but was to claim he found the information in a paper on the ground, so he can do whatever he wants with it like any other found item?
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Post by rmcalhoun on Oct 3, 2019 14:48:14 GMT -6
Not only that, hell I called up the SP to turn you in. You'll soon be the subject of a Douglas Walker article. Fame and recognition at last! Unfortunately, he can only wish to be immortalized in Muncie "Hall of Shame / Person of the Year" thread with a tame offense like this.
Well, absent any much more significantly stupid behavior. I don't expect the federal law enforcement to have to rescue him hanging from a second story balcony by one foot, for example. Although the element of related alcohol consumption may be present, and he did incriminate himself subsequently, still there was no public nudity, methamphetamine, mindless violence, video capture, or RC and Vodka mixture to put it over the top.
Perhaps, there is some chance if when confronted by the Federal authorities he not only pelts them with hot dogs, but was to claim he found the information in a paper on the ground, so he can do whatever he wants with it like any other found item?
Ahhhh a loop hole I like it
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