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Post by 00hmh on Jul 19, 2021 8:50:51 GMT -6
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Post by sweep on Jul 19, 2021 14:05:31 GMT -6
I can't read that restricted article.
Edit: So I looked up the information myself, the materials being halted are for teenagers not children (so I don't know what polio has to do with anything), and they can still be distributed just without the Tennessee Department of Health Logo. It appears to be for liability reason not paranoia over vaccines.
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Post by 00hmh on Jul 19, 2021 14:32:02 GMT -6
I can't read that restricted article. Edit: So I looked up the information myself, the materials being halted are for teenagers not children (so I don't know what polio has to do with anything), and they can still be distributed just without the Tennessee Department of Health Logo. This is for almost entirely for liability reasons not some paranoia over vaccines. No. That's not true. It has nothing almost to do with liability. Lisa Piercey, the Health official fired for reaching out to teens, issued a statement which in part reads:
"What’s more is that the leadership of the Tennessee Department of Health has reacted to the sabre rattling from the Government Operations Committee by halting ALL vaccination outreach for children. Not just COVID-19 vaccine outreach for teens, but ALL communications around vaccines of any kind. No back-to-school messaging to the more than 30,000 parents who did not get their children measles vaccines last year due to the pandemic. No messaging around human papilloma virus vaccine to the residents of the state with one of the highest HPV cancer rates in the country. No observation of National Immunization Awareness Month in August. No reminders to the parents of teens who are late in receiving their second COVID-19 vaccine."
Piercey had sent out information which indicated that some teens had the legal right to act on their own, which enraged some. But the reaction seems to be far beyond the information she sent out. As far as that goes, if the teens in question have a right to act, they definitely should get accurate health information.
If they do get information now, it will not have any indication that a state agency has endorsed the information.
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Post by sweep on Jul 19, 2021 14:54:18 GMT -6
I can't read that restricted article. Edit: So I looked up the information myself, the materials being halted are for teenagers not children (so I don't know what polio has to do with anything), and they can still be distributed just without the Tennessee Department of Health Logo. This is for almost entirely for liability reasons not some paranoia over vaccines. No. That's not true. It has nothing almost to do with liability. Lisa Piercey, the Health official fired for reaching out to teens, issued a statement which in part reads:
"What’s more is that the leadership of the Tennessee Department of Health has reacted to the sabre rattling from the Government Operations Committee by halting ALL vaccination outreach for children. Not just COVID-19 vaccine outreach for teens, but ALL communications around vaccines of any kind. No back-to-school messaging to the more than 30,000 parents who did not get their children measles vaccines last year due to the pandemic. No messaging around human papilloma virus vaccine to the residents of the state with one of the highest HPV cancer rates in the country. No observation of National Immunization Awareness Month in August. No reminders to the parents of teens who are late in receiving their second COVID-19 vaccine."
Piercey had sent out information which indicated that some teens had the legal right to act on their own, which enraged some. But the reaction seems to be far beyond the information she sent out. As far as that goes, if the teens in question have a right to act, they definitely should get accurate health information.
If they do get information now, it will not have any indication that a state agency has endorsed the information.
Yeah I always put my faith in the statements of embittered employees who were just terminated. The fact is she was likely canned for doing a shitty job of getting residents vaccinated. Nice spin job. Now when do we get the article on the Trump issue. Edit: I really like this quote of hers " No observation of National Immunization Awareness Month in August."..........................Oh the humanity, is she serious ? |
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Post by 00hmh on Jul 19, 2021 15:20:30 GMT -6
No. That's not true. It has nothing almost to do with liability. Lisa Piercey, the Health official fired for reaching out to teens, issued a statement which in part reads:
"What’s more is that the leadership of the Tennessee Department of Health has reacted to the sabre rattling from the Government Operations Committee by halting ALL vaccination outreach for children. Not just COVID-19 vaccine outreach for teens, but ALL communications around vaccines of any kind. Yeah I always put my faith in the statements of embittered employees who were just terminated. The fact is she was likely canned for doing a shitty job of getting residents vaccinated. Nice spin job. Spin it would be if you were correct she was fired for that cause. Tennessee is doing a shitty job but it isn't the health department performance.
There was no doubt the firing was response to political pressure. She created a controversy, no doubt, but isn't firing a bit of an overreaction in a nonpolitical professional position?
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Post by sweep on Jul 19, 2021 15:43:21 GMT -6
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Post by 00hmh on Jul 19, 2021 16:58:26 GMT -6
Above you said it was Lisa Piercey who was fired, this article is about someone named Fiscus ? So who was fired ? If you read the article you attached she (Fiscus)was almost asking to be canned. That's my bad. Fiscus was fired. Piercy was the official creating the policy.
Fiscus was fired for political reasons. It had to do with information(accurate) that discussed Tennessee law which allowed some teens to make health care decisions. The legislature was outraged. You tell me why they don't want teens who can legally make decisions get the best information in order to do so?
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Post by sweep on Jul 19, 2021 17:22:13 GMT -6
It doesn't matter, that's just a side show anyway.
"Perhaps you can explain why the Tennessee political hacks have stopped promoting ALL vaccines, including polio and many other proven approved vaccines, some mandatory for decades in schools."
The above is your original quote, why don't you just admit it's pure bullshit.
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Post by 00hmh on Jul 20, 2021 5:45:20 GMT -6
No truth there at all?
The person fired was director of vaccination. Fired for political reason. A significant amount of information about ALL vaccine is cut off. Politics resulted in reducing efforts to vaccinate substantially.
You offered two explanations both unfounded ad hominem attacks.
Now. Complain at my statement as exaggerated, if you want, but what was the firing offense here? Why such a political uproar? I don't get either.
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Post by sweep on Jul 20, 2021 6:23:12 GMT -6
YOUR ORIGINAL HYPERBOLIC STATEMENT HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH ANYONE BEING FIRED.
Now when do we get that link on your Trump comment. I won't hold my breath.
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Post by 00hmh on Jul 20, 2021 8:11:24 GMT -6
YOUR ORIGINAL HYPERBOLIC STATEMENT HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH ANYONE BEING FIRED. Now when do we get that link on your Trump comment. I won't hold my breath.
Yes the original post I made was not focused on a firing, but the statement made by the fired vaccine director showed the new Tennessee policy indeed applied to children and had an impact on ALL vaccine information. The Tennessee policy will discourage vaccination (apparently ALL vaccination) which plays to a fringe anti-vax element. Looking back that original statement seems to me accurate and was made even more clear in the follow up providing a link for you:
"This is outreach, reminders and information. In some few cases the minor would have the right to act without parental consent. This would prevent the health department from routine actions long followed in schools, among other things."
Your meandering complaints containing no substance other than patently false allegations about the firing don't answer the question.
What's the deal with a State health agency adopting what is at best a weakly supported and at worst a discredited vaccine position?
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Post by bsutrack on Jul 20, 2021 16:08:22 GMT -6
Isn't it ironic, 50 Texan Democratic State Representatives leave the state in order to avoid voting on an anti-fraud voting bill. Photographs of them on a private plane they took to Washington D.C. show them yucking it up while not wearing masks. Now 5 of them have tested positive for Covid-19. I think the reports were that the positive cases had all been vaccinated and therefore were following CDC guidelines to not wear masks.
In case you are not aware, flying on airlines in the USA requires wearing a mask not only on the planes but also in the airport. I guess these folks were on a private plane (wonder who paid for that?) so maybe the mask mandate didn't apply to them; otherwise it's more of the rules apply to the masses but not the ones making the rules. |
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Post by 00hmh on Jul 20, 2021 19:13:55 GMT -6
I think the reports were that the positive cases had all been vaccinatated I guess these folks were on a private plane (wonder who paid for that?) so maybe the mask mandate didn't apply to them; otherwise it's more of the rules apply to the masses but not the ones making the rules. I support a mask rule, too. Glad to see you recognize the importance, especially with delta. Would consider the priority of private plane travel regulation low on the public health risks. But, right now I'm leaning toward saying we need to go back to mask rules we dropped recently. Delta infections are showing 1 or 2 thousand times the viral load and are perhaps 200% more transmissible over all. Unvaccinated adults are going to have a real problem. Even vaccinated people who are protected from serious harm are likely if infected to be able to transfer the virus. Kids are apparently getting sicker than with the earlier variants. Until we can vaccinate 12 and under we maybe need to avoid kids, unless we are masked. Schools are likely going to have outbreaks this fall. Glad you have come around on masks. Next you need to worry more about vaccine than you have. |
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Post by bsutrack on Jul 20, 2021 21:55:57 GMT -6
I hope you caught the Typhoid Mary of Covid-19, Rev. Fauci's testimony today to Congress. I haven't seen so much bobbing and weaving since Muhammad Ali.
His defense of his actions has evolved over the past few months. He used to claim he hadn't funded research at the Wuhan Lab. He seems to have realized that wasn't defensible. Now he claims the research he funded wasn't really gain of function research. As Senator Rand Paul attempted to point out today, if it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, it's a duck.
Fauci is probably safe as long as the Democrats control Congress. If however they lose control in the 2022 mid-terms, Fauci might find himself wearing an orange jumpsuit.
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Post by 00hmh on Jul 21, 2021 10:52:51 GMT -6
His defense of his actions has evolved over the past few months. He used to claim he hadn't funded research at the Wuhan Lab. He seems to have realized that wasn't defensible. Now he claims the research he funded wasn't really gain of function research. As Senator Rand Paul attempted to point out today, if it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, it's a duck. Fauci is probably safe as long as the Democrats control Congress. If however they lose control in the 2022 mid-terms, Fauci might find himself wearing an orange jumpsuit. This is downright silly. That Rand Paul is the quack here is more likely. Who do you trust on the issue of funded research, grant interpretation and evaluating the nature of research, the most cited researcher in his field who has worked for multiple administrations or the guy who won't get vaccinated and isn't a board certified physician any more.
Your own claim is even more silly. Fauci can't be put in jail by the '22 Congress, and if charged criminally the charge would be lying to Congress and require a jury to buy into the argument on the merits beyond a reasonable doubt. That's a silly goose honking.
EcoHealth funding was not related to the experiments, but the collection of samples. The NIH grant includes language that some say suggests gain-of-function research; NIH with very sound authority backing it up says that is a misinterpretation. Regardless of how you interpret it there is a difference of opinion that makes Fauci VERY unlikely to be prosecuted by any prosecutor much less convicted beyond a reasonable doubt.
On the merits the underlying blame game has little substance. Blaming Fauci is a giant red herring to divert attention from issues about how we responded and how we now need to respond to the problem we have. Congress and the Biden Administration have taken steps and may need further steps to tighten protocols for future research, and most agree on this.
Assuming we funded research and relied on the professionalism of the scientists involved in the research that is not even negligent under existing standards at the time of the grand, especially considering the total scope of the research funded by NIH and the many projects funded.
IF this research in any way was linked to the outbreak, which is possible (as Fauci actually testified at one point), it is not at all likely to be proved.
Again, there is a legitimate reason to call for more stringent safety standards and oversight (see my post above where I point out that is the real moral of the story is adequate funding is needed to insure such oversight, not some evil deed by the good doctor.)
Fauci shifting position is another red herring, that is the nature of a complicated world that as new evidence surfaces you change position. The claims of shifting by Fauci involve statements largely due to new information and perfectly reasonable. |
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