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Post by Lurkin McGurkin on Nov 20, 2020 9:09:13 GMT -6
EVERY election has some fraud. Not much. I'm just wondering how much fraud you're ok with. |
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Post by TakeMeBackto2008 on Nov 20, 2020 9:46:12 GMT -6
Dominion...LOL. If you believe that garbage, you're too far down the rabbit hole to be helped. Georgia used Dominion voting machines, conducted a full audit and...still no evidence of fraud. The Democrats must have really had their ducks lined up on this one. Somehow, Biden's camp turned OFF the software in Georgia, won the state anyway, and did this just to throw everyone off about the other states they won. If mental gymnastics were an Olympic sport, the U.S. could send Republicans and sweep the medal stand every time. Saying they conducted a full audit is just not true. They did a recount. It was an audit. The recount happens after they certify the votes today. |
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Post by 00hmh on Nov 20, 2020 9:52:23 GMT -6
EVERY election has some fraud. Not much. I'm just wondering how much fraud you're ok with. Nobody is completely happy at any level of fraud. But no system is perfect.
Most of the history of voter fraud is small scale and from a different era. It is not just Democratic big city machines who have been guilty of it.
Bottom line is there is little evidence of any major issue with mail voting or with modern election practices.
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Post by 00hmh on Nov 20, 2020 9:53:21 GMT -6
EVERY election has some fraud. Not much. I'm just wondering how much fraud you're ok with. My point above is like all other legal responses to wrongdoing you have to look at a cost benefit analysis on taking action. Throwing out the election because of some unknown amount of possible fraud MIGHT exist is not the answer. Substituting politicians to select the President instead of the popular vote was rejected long ago in every state. There is a fairly good chance many voters have been denied the opportunity to vote and had their names stricken from the registration list due to overzealous or outright illegal voter suppression. That is at least as great a danger to this election as any fraud. How much of that are you OK with? And, if there is a major danger of fraud as alleged by Trump legal team then I have to ask why the GOP legislatures in these swing states did not act on it previously. The allegation above is that such fraud has been a long time issue, was this long time history unknown to the GOP legislatures? |
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Post by rmcalhoun on Nov 20, 2020 10:04:02 GMT -6
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Post by 00hmh on Nov 20, 2020 10:10:09 GMT -6
The audit was the best route to test for the software error.
The audit comparison of the votes reported showed a very small fraction of a percent of vote counts were different than reported. Hand recounts are actually MORE prone to error than machine counts anyway, and the results are statistically very reliable here.
Raffensperger ordered a hybrid of an audit and a recount. This means that while they assessed literally every ballot, which is not normal in an ordinary RLA, they did it by hand, which is not actually normal of a typical recount.
After the completion of this process, before November 18, Raffensperger assessed the results and then continued to the certification process on November 20. After certification, a recount can be requested which would see all the ballots scanned by machine again across the state. So this was a hand count. Of ALL the Presidential votes.
The alleged computer fraud was a software feature which might have REPORTED a different count than the actual machine scan detected. The Georgia audit eliminates that possibility.
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Post by 00hmh on Nov 20, 2020 10:24:11 GMT -6
If mental gymnastics were an Olympic sport, the U.S. could send Republicans and sweep the medal stand every time. Saying they conducted a full audit is just not true. They did a recount. They did a full hand recount of all Presidential votes. The Risk Limiting Audit was based on a hand recount by definition in Georgia law. They chose the Presidential election as the basis of the audit for obvious reasons.
From November 11 to November 19, 2020, the Georgia Secretary of State’s office conducted a statewide risk-limiting audit of the Presidential Contest from the November 2020 General Election. Georgia’s original machine count resulted in a margin of 0.3% between candidates Joe Biden and Donald Trump, requiring a full manual count of just over 5 million ballots to complete an efficient risk-limiting audit. Audit boards from all 159 Georgia counties examined 41881 batches, hand-sorting and counting each ballot as part of the process, which was the largest hand count of ballots in United States history. This document summarizes the findings of the audit.
Audit Outcome
The audit confirmed the original result of the election, namely that Joe Biden won the Presidential Contest in the State of Georgia. Like any risk-limiting audit, this audit does not confirm or correct the exact margin of victory. It only provides sufficient evidence that the correct winner was reported.
Hand-Count Variations
Prior research indicates that the expected variance between hand and machine counts, assuming no issues beyond normal human error in the counting process, ranges anywhere from 1.0 - 1.5% across all ballot types.
Georgia shows a 0.1053% (0.001053) variation in statewide total vote count, and a 0.0099% (0.000099) variation in the overall margin. The audited vote totals from the hand tally for the three candidates were:
Trump 2,462,857
Biden 2,475,141
Jorgensen 62,587
In addition, no individual county showed a variation in margin larger than 0.73%, and 103 of the 159 counties showed a margin variation of less than 0.05%.
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Post by bsutrack on Nov 21, 2020 15:55:40 GMT -6
So all those folks who signed affidavits of voter fraud are lying? Republican voting observers who weren't allowed to observe vote counting was perfectly okay with you? Dominion voting systems is a perfectly legit organization whose owner didn't brag about fixing the election against Trump? Let's face it, the Democratic Party has a long record of voter fraud going back to Kennedy and Lyndon Johnson. Under the cover of the Covid-19 crisis and the resulting increased mail-in ballots, it allowed them to greatly step-up their game. Enough to change the outcome of the election? That's the question that probably never can be answered. Dominion...LOL. If you believe that garbage, you're too far down the rabbit hole to be helped. Georgia used Dominion voting machines, conducted a full audit and...still no evidence of fraud. The Democrats must have really had their ducks lined up on this one. Somehow, Biden's camp turned OFF the software in Georgia, won the state anyway, and did this just to throw everyone off about the other states they won. If mental gymnastics were an Olympic sport, the U.S. could send Republicans and sweep the medal stand every time. Then why did Dominion Voting Systems Thursday night abruptly back out of attending a fact-finding hearing that was set for Friday morning with the Pennsylvania House State Government Committee? Instead of attending they have "lawyered up". Is that the the normal behavior for an innocent party? As for Georgia, once you separate a mail-in ballot from the envelope it was contained in with an outside signature that is suppose to match the one on file (then dispose of the mailing envelope), it's almost impossible to catch any fraud. It sounds like in the initial counting their rejection rate was the same as the last election. sos.ga.gov/index.php/elections/number_of_absentee_ballots_rejected_for_signature_issues_in_the_2020_election_increased_350_from_2018But once a fraudulent vote was accepted and the mailing envelope separated from it and discarded, there was no way to undo that error in a recount. You are just recounting the same fraudulent ballot. The only thing the recount turned-up was several thumb drives of votes counted in Trump dominated rural districts. Funny how it was just the rural districts that got lost. It helped Trump some, but not enough. Wisconsin has a real problem. In their state constitution you most request an absentee ballot and that request must be on file. The Democrats did mass mailings to voters they thought would be receptive to voting for their candidates. Those voters then mailed in ballots without ever requesting a ballot. There is a good chance legally all those ballots could get tossed swinging the state to Trump. However, Wisconsin is probably the only state that Trump realistically has a shot at. The rest are probably safe for the Democrats. I would give Trump less than 1% chance. In Michigan's Wayne County when the number of voters don't "balance" with the number of ballots cast; when you have for example 100 voter signatures and 200 votes cast, there is something wrong. Someone has run a Biden voted ballet numerous times through the counting machines. If you are too blind to see that simple fact, YOU ARE TOO FAR DOWN THE RABBIT HOLE! |
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Post by bsutrack on Nov 21, 2020 16:03:36 GMT -6
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Post by bsutrack on Nov 21, 2020 16:20:00 GMT -6
Saying they conducted a full audit is just not true. They did a recount. They did a full hand recount of all Presidential votes. The Risk Limiting Audit was based on a hand recount by definition in Georgia law. They chose the Presidential election as the basis of the audit for obvious reasons.
From November 11 to November 19, 2020, the Georgia Secretary of State’s office conducted a statewide risk-limiting audit of the Presidential Contest from the November 2020 General Election. Georgia’s original machine count resulted in a margin of 0.3% between candidates Joe Biden and Donald Trump, requiring a full manual count of just over 5 million ballots to complete an efficient risk-limiting audit. Audit boards from all 159 Georgia counties examined 41881 batches, hand-sorting and counting each ballot as part of the process, which was the largest hand count of ballots in United States history. This document summarizes the findings of the audit.
Audit Outcome
The audit confirmed the original result of the election, namely that Joe Biden won the Presidential Contest in the State of Georgia. Like any risk-limiting audit, this audit does not confirm or correct the exact margin of victory. It only provides sufficient evidence that the correct winner was reported.
Hand-Count Variations
Prior research indicates that the expected variance between hand and machine counts, assuming no issues beyond normal human error in the counting process, ranges anywhere from 1.0 - 1.5% across all ballot types.
Georgia shows a 0.1053% (0.001053) variation in statewide total vote count, and a 0.0099% (0.000099) variation in the overall margin. The audited vote totals from the hand tally for the three candidates were:
Trump 2,462,857
Biden 2,475,141
Jorgensen 62,587
In addition, no individual county showed a variation in margin larger than 0.73%, and 103 of the 159 counties showed a margin variation of less than 0.05%.
I have no doubt they have counted more or less correctly. The problem, as I see it, is in the mail-in ballots. The outer envelope is suppose to have on it the Voter's signature which is suppose to be matched against the signature the state has on file when you registered. Whoever initially counts the vote is suppose to check that signature against what is on file and determine if it is the real signature or a forgery. In some cases a machine does this instead of a human and the machine can be set to various degrees of accuracy. Once the ballet is accepted, the envelope is not kept, or at the very least there is no way to link it back to the actual ballot it came with. So if a fraudulent ballot isn't caught in the first pass, a recount, audit, whatever is worthless. Am I off track on this? Seriously what am I missing? It was the mail-in ballots that were the key to the Democrats winning. They were the most accessible to gaming the system. |
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Post by 00hmh on Nov 21, 2020 16:29:51 GMT -6
Tell me it all this is evidence of widespread fraud.
Georgia's vote audit was systematic, and very reliable.
Trump is asking America to believe in a vast conspiracy unsupported by evidence.
If this kind of anecdote is so damning why is his vaunted legal team refusing in court to present evidence of fraud? Why
in notable cases even admitting there was no fraud but claiming only technical procedural issues that "create possible doubts?"
Why are they 1 for 20 in their legal challenges?
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Post by 00hmh on Nov 21, 2020 16:35:52 GMT -6
Mail in ballots have been relied upon in numerous elections. No notable problems.
The time to challenge the use of mail in ballots is before the election. It's the law. Good reasons for it.
Trump has been claiming fraud for 4 years. Why not attack it, change these laws before now?
Too busy suppressing votes other ways?
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Post by 00hmh on Nov 21, 2020 19:32:49 GMT -6
Trump today shows his Presidential chops. Goes golfing instead of attending G20 Summit on the pandemic.
Conspiracy about elections he has time to pay attention, people dying in record numbers, hospitals filling up, health care professionals begging for help, not so much.
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Post by TakeMeBackto2008 on Nov 23, 2020 18:17:44 GMT -6
Michigan certified its votes today and the GSA has formally begun the transition process.
Looks like this dog and pony show is finally winding down.
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Post by villagepub on Nov 23, 2020 19:11:29 GMT -6
Tell me it all this is evidence of widespread fraud. Georgia's vote audit was systematic, and very reliable. Trump is asking America to believe in a vast conspiracy unsupported by evidence. If this kind of anecdote is so damning why is his vaunted legal team refusing in court to present evidence of fraud? Why in notable cases even admitting there was no fraud but claiming only technical procedural issues that "create possible doubts?" Why are they 1 for 20 in their legal challenges? There is lots of evidence of election fraud over the past few years. The problem is finding the proof in the evidence. |
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