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Post by rmcalhoun on Dec 14, 2021 21:57:59 GMT -6
If nothing else it's going to give us some new material which we desperately need
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Post by lmills72 on Dec 14, 2021 22:14:09 GMT -6
Here is where I keep finding myself when thinking about this conversation. Put Randy Zachary, Mickey Hosier, or even Randy Davis at Blackford High School in place of Luke Brown and what do you get? Well, Hosier played at Alexandria, so I'd say he would have done about the same at Blackford as he did in Alex. Maybe worse if you consider that he had a better coach at Alex and actually had capable teammates including a big kid who also was a DI recruit (can't remember his name. Didn't he go to Akron or some place like that, then quit?) Maybe better statistically if you figure that he would have just had free rein to do whatever he wanted.
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Post by lmills72 on Dec 14, 2021 22:48:18 GMT -6
The odds are stacked against Brown, even if his athletic attributes weren't in question.
One, he's playing for a bad coach, a coach not known for putting players in the best spot to succeed. If players do seem to lack some physical attributes, playing in a system that takes advantage of what they do well and minimizes what they do poorly can make a big difference. Brown won't get that this year at BSU.
Two, it's possible he has a flawed sports mentality that will keep him from achieving at his highest level. I'd say the vast majority of Whitford recruits (especially transfers) choose to play for him because they don't want to be coached hard. They want to be coddled, to be told that they can be whatever type of player they want to be at BSU despite their sometimes obvious limitations.
Three, even if Brown can overcome those first two items (a little like Persons probably did), he's still going to be playing with a cast of teammates who cannot make that same jump. He might be able to help a little by being a bit of the on-court coach Persons was, but will he have Persons' alpha dog attitude?
I wish the kid well and think he could have some success in the right system with the right team. I don't think that's going to be BSU this year.
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Post by rmcalhoun on Dec 14, 2021 22:59:06 GMT -6
It's very noticeable though that they are milking it for all its worth I don't like it particularly but that part sort of makes sense to me with a program in financial distress needing every paid attendance possible. I get it attendance is down.. The program itself is lifeless. Go to a couple games it's the exact same 2500 people in the exact same spots. There is no energy at all. We continue to go because that's just what we do. The only time you see a different face is when they bring in some group Ie boy scouts or the like. In game promotions have all but stopped minus a couple cheesy things. Stop now and think like your one of the guys already on the team. You did not receive this treatment. Are you going to lose your minutes to a guy coming in off the street? You have put your time in to earn those minutes since summer. Let's face it you don't make those videos and have Brown sitting on the Bench somebody is going to get pissed. These guys on this team have been together how are they going to treat Brown. How many hard shoulders and elbows is the kid going to take in practice Now be Brown imagine the pressure he is going to feel. It's not going to be easy for him either. There are just so many angles and ways for all of this to backfire. Let's hope none of this happens and the kid becomes a star. That's what we need
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Post by rmcalhoun on Dec 14, 2021 23:18:56 GMT -6
Brown is lucky this team does not have an alpha like Persons. If Persons was on this team I guarantee you he is punching Brown within the first week of practice just to see what Brown has and how is going to react
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Post by 00hmh on Dec 14, 2021 23:54:43 GMT -6
I haven't yet seen these Tweets, so maybe it's that big a deal. You said yourself it was more off key and odd than anything else. Besides it's not Luke saying anything. And I'd bet players are smarter than you think about it.
And if there is reaction it might well be a player just plays harder to make his point. Persons would more likely respond that way.
He was a hot head, his punches and shoving was in heated physical practice when somebody muscled with him and were based on losing his temper. If he punched Brown it would mean Luke had a mean streak and wouldn't back down. A good thing probably...
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Post by rmcalhoun on Dec 15, 2021 1:04:04 GMT -6
I'm just throwing out scenarios I'm sure Brown has not said anything. Hopefully your right and it's a smooth transition all I'm saying is it's human nature and the tweets could be taken In an unintended way
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Post by 00hmh on Dec 15, 2021 1:23:25 GMT -6
Can't disagree about that.
You're the expert on Twitter.
But maybe you're looking too hard at how things can go wrong.
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Post by rmcalhoun on Dec 15, 2021 2:10:35 GMT -6
Can't disagree about that. You're the expert on Twitter. But maybe you're looking too hard at how things can go wrong. I want it to be real clear. I have not seen any member of the current team including Brown tweet anything about Brown. Only the Team account has tweeted about Brown. Gregg Doyle(Indy writer) has a man crush on him the could only be rivaled by Tom Davis's Boner for Lembo. The luke Brown Blackford army Cult is fired up and ready to go. Most everyone else is really just like us and are just going to see what happens. As far as me just looking at ways it could go wrong, yea your probably right but that's what I do. Expect the worse possibly outcome until proven different that way if it does go south your not shocked or disappointed.
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Post by cardfan on Dec 15, 2021 4:59:09 GMT -6
I think my biggest “concern” is we have two guys who transferred in who think they are the PG. It’s just a matter of time before Whitford will feel he has to give all their minutes to brown. ( who hopefully will proves he’s earned them). So now you got guys sliding down a spot on the bench. How will Cochran or Jacobs take that? Can we really put Cochran at the two? He can’t shoot. Personally I think he’s a tremendously undersized 4….. what do you do with Bumbalough? Catch and shoot off guard? Jacobs? Now, if brown is spectacular fairly quickly and we’re suddenly winning consistently you’ll hear those guys talk about “team.” But if brown is overmatched and still gets the minutes because Whit is desperate, well, guys start to think “why did I come here” and off we go.
I don’t necessarily think things will play out poorly. Like Rob I’m just kicking stuff around because what else we got with bsu basketball? I think too many of us don’t have the confidence whit can manage this well. Folks want to see brown and they want it now. If whit can’t get him on the floor, for whatever reason, the pressure builds. If some of the players he replaces get butthurt how does whit handle that. Persons basically took over the team from whit when he was here. Whit defers to his players and that’s not good.
Are we not entertained? If nothing else brown will inject life into the arena. Hopefully he does the same for the team. I’ll be very honest, I hope Brown is a true star and I still hope Whitford isn’t kept. In 9 years he’s shown very little as a coach. Pretty hard to see that’s gonna change going forward.
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Post by david75bsu on Dec 15, 2021 6:39:33 GMT -6
In a Ball State perfect world, the players from the immediate Muncie are, the two Lukes and Sparks become the stars. This would help attendance. The rest of the cast gets pulled along on the ride and we see things improve. I’m sort of a glass half full type of a guy.
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Post by realitycheck on Dec 15, 2021 6:53:19 GMT -6
I've been saying for 9 years that Whitford has never been able to win enough in living rooms and at kitchen tables. We've not won in the recruiting wars and he's not a good bench coach which equals what we have...blah. We especially have never gotten that one truly special player that you can build a team around. Persons was close but Whitford didn't surround him with the right pieces plus he's a lousy coach anyway. Teague was also close as a senior but I wouldn't put him in the same category as a Tee Smith or Steve Payne or McCurdy. So now we have Luke Brown. Is he the elusive special player we've never been able to land? I don't know but he's going to play for the same coach we've all agreed at one point or another is not special as a motivator, a strategist, a recruiter and a leader. He's not a bad human from what I can tell but a special coach he is not. Therein lies the problem for Mr. Brown and his soon to be mates.
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Post by williamtsherman on Dec 15, 2021 6:54:07 GMT -6
But if brown is overmatched and still gets the minutes because Whit is desperate, well, guys start to think “why did I come here” and off we go. Yeah but there are rules and difficulties involved in transferring. You can't just decide to up and leave and switch schools on a whim with no penalty. Right?
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Post by lmills72 on Dec 15, 2021 7:17:51 GMT -6
I think my biggest “concern” is we have two guys who transferred in who think they are the PG. It’s just a matter of time before Whitford will feel he has to give all their minutes to brown. ( who hopefully will proves he’s earned them). So now you got guys sliding down a spot on the bench. How will Cochran or Jacobs take that? Can we really put Cochran at the two? He can’t shoot. Personally I think he’s a tremendously undersized 4….. what do you do with Bumbalough? Catch and shoot off guard? Jacobs? Now, if brown is spectacular fairly quickly and we’re suddenly winning consistently you’ll hear those guys talk about “team.” But if brown is overmatched and still gets the minutes because Whit is desperate, well, guys start to think “why did I come here” and off we go. So if Cochran or Jacobs or Bumbalough decide to transfer because of Brown or even another situation, are we devastated? Have we determined that any of those are key players in our next MAC championship?
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Post by cardfan on Dec 15, 2021 7:41:35 GMT -6
I think my biggest “concern” is we have two guys who transferred in who think they are the PG. It’s just a matter of time before Whitford will feel he has to give all their minutes to brown. ( who hopefully will proves he’s earned them). So now you got guys sliding down a spot on the bench. How will Cochran or Jacobs take that? Can we really put Cochran at the two? He can’t shoot. Personally I think he’s a tremendously undersized 4….. what do you do with Bumbalough? Catch and shoot off guard? Jacobs? Now, if brown is spectacular fairly quickly and we’re suddenly winning consistently you’ll hear those guys talk about “team.” But if brown is overmatched and still gets the minutes because Whit is desperate, well, guys start to think “why did I come here” and off we go. So if Cochran or Jacobs or Bumbalough decide to transfer because of Brown or even another situation, are we devastated? Have we determined that any of those are key players in our next MAC championship? cochran and jacobs can't transfer again. Bumbalough could, but I can't see him leaving at this point.
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