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Post by bsutrack on Sept 29, 2022 20:15:46 GMT -6
There is a good chance some folks in Western Europe are going to freeze this winter. Things got even worse this week when both the Nord Stream 1 and 2 pipelines were blown-up. These pipelines were designed to deliver Russian natural gas to Germany. Nord Stream 2, the newer of the two pipelines, was to start delivering natural gas this year, but got sidelined with sanctions against Russia due to their invasion of Ukraine. The Nord Stream 1 pipeline was delivering natural gas until a few weeks ago when it was first shutdown due to maintenance issues. These were most likely bogus. Later Russia changed them to outright demands Western Europe stop supporting Ukraine in exchange for more natural gas via the Nord Stream pipelines. www.vox.com/world/2022/9/28/23376356/nord-stream-pipeline-russia-explosions-sabotageSo the question is, who did this to the pipelines. Most media outlets are suggesting the Russians did it. But why would they? As long as the pipelines were functional, they still had leverage in demanding Western Europe and NATO stop supporting the Ukraine in exchange for natural gas this winter. With the pipelines no longer functional, don't they lose that leverage? A second possibility is the Ukrainians somehow pulled this off. But do they really have the capabilities? A third option is the US. The thinking here is Germany and the rest of Western Europe was about to cave and exchange continued support for Ukraine for natural gas from Russia. Much of German heavy industry has, or is the process of shutting down due to high energy costs and if their citizens start to freeze to death this winter, you get the picture. By disabling the pipelines, there would no longer be a benefit for ending Western Europe's support of Ukraine. And then there was this inconvenient statement by Joe Biden last February where he says the Nord Stream 2 pipeline will not deliver gas to Western Europe if Russia invades Ukraine. www.reuters.com/world/biden-germanys-scholz-stress-unified-front-against-any-russian-aggression-toward-2022-02-07/So who did it? |
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Post by nazcard on Sept 29, 2022 23:33:16 GMT -6
Russia didn't need to, they control the valves; just turn it off if you want to halt flow; US was testing under water drones in Poland shortly before the pipeline 'explosion'. Russia spent billions building the pipeline, they wouldn't blow it up, just turn a valve, point made. Sorry, think Ulvalde, etc. our government and so-called intelligence agencies have become rogue organizations; if not, why are they raiding conservatives homes (Mike Lindell, etc.). Houston, we have a problem, and it's us (or US).
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Post by williamtsherman on Sept 30, 2022 6:24:30 GMT -6
After ready a variety of theories on this, I believe that sabotage teams from the US, Russian and Ukraine simultaneously converged on the pipeline, collided, and that caused the explosion.
In any case, the Europeans have been voting for those promoting their idiot "green" energy policies for years and very richly deserve what they have coming to them.
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Post by 00hmh on Sept 30, 2022 8:27:04 GMT -6
After ready a variety of theories on this, I believe that sabotage teams from the US, Russian and Ukraine simultaneously converged on the pipeline, collided, and that caused the explosion. In any case, the Europeans have been voting for those promoting their idiot "green" energy policies for years and very richly deserve what they have coming to them. Ditching nuclear hurt. Using Russian gas isn't exactly a green strategy... |
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Post by williamtsherman on Sept 30, 2022 16:52:19 GMT -6
Actually, that's exactly what the "green" strategy entailed, as has been pointed out by sensible people for years. But when you're on a gratifying rampage of self-righteousness, you tend to overlook consequence such as that. Bet all your money that American wokesters will entirely ignore this sobering example.
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Post by 00hmh on Sept 30, 2022 19:36:04 GMT -6
Actually, that's exactly what the "green" strategy entailed, as has been pointed out by sensible people for years. But when you're on a gratifying rampage of self-righteousness, you tend to overlook consequence such as that. Bet all your money that American wokesters will entirely ignore this sobering example. I don't get the part about woke rhetoric. This has nothing to do with racial awareness. But I think we agree on the folly of not finding better energy sources than imports. "Green" strategy has always been to move to sustainable sources and decrease fossil fuels. Giving up nuclear and substituting Russian gas was at the time cheap, but turns out is, first, not green, and second has this downside. The anti- nuke movement is broadly environmentally motivated, but a bit different, and the contradiction of importing Russian gas as a way to reduce domestic fossil fuel is a shell game. |
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Post by 00hmh on Sept 30, 2022 19:47:11 GMT -6
Russia didn't need to...Sorry, think Ulvalde, etc. our government and so-called intelligence agencies have become rogue organizations; if not, why are they raiding conservatives homes (Mike Lindell, etc.). Houston, we have a problem, and it's us (or US). Sabotage is irrational for all the main players. Those who favor international chaos, resulting political autocracy are the only ones benefitting. Uvalde?? The pillow guy? US intelligence agencies hardly benefit. That's a silly argument. The pillow guy was subject to legal search warrants in the election conspiracy investigation, not a CIA operation. The DOJ did not go after the pipeline... |
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Post by villagepub on Oct 6, 2022 9:25:34 GMT -6
Russia didn't need to...Sorry, think Ulvalde, etc. our government and so-called intelligence agencies have become rogue organizations; if not, why are they raiding conservatives homes (Mike Lindell, etc.). Houston, we have a problem, and it's us (or US). Sabotage is irrational for all the main players. Those who favor international chaos, resulting political autocracy are the only ones benefitting. Uvalde?? The pillow guy? US intelligence agencies hardly benefit. That's a silly argument. The pillow guy was subject to legal search warrants in the election conspiracy investigation, not a CIA operation. The DOJ did not go after the pipeline... Spectre |
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Post by 00hmh on Oct 6, 2022 9:44:56 GMT -6
Sabotage is irrational for all the main players. Those who favor international chaos, resulting political autocracy are the only ones benefitting. Uvalde?? The pillow guy? US intelligence agencies hardly benefit. That's a silly argument. The pillow guy was subject to legal search warrants in the election conspiracy investigation, not a CIA operation. The DOJ did not go after the pipeline... Spectre Ah, there you go! I like that answer.
Almost as much as I like the General's proposal:
After ready a variety of theories on this, I believe that sabotage teams from the US, Russian and Ukraine simultaneously converged on the pipeline, collided, and that caused the explosion. But seriously folks, it really makes no rational sense for any of the major players here, so it's more likely to me it is state sponsored actors, but from some relatively weak autocratic state who want chaos to cement power and benefit by hard times in the world. They can point out how their "strong" government has protected the people. They have little to lose. If I get a second guess it might be irrational environmental whack jobs who want us to return to living in the stone age anyway.
OK, MAYBE Russia. There is the one major player here, where Putin may be painting himself into a corner where he must win at all costs to survive after underestimating the costs of his land grab. Of course he may qualify under the first category, Russia is a mess. |
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Post by Lurkin McGurkin on Oct 6, 2022 12:01:24 GMT -6
If the US did this... well, wars have been started for less.
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Post by 00hmh on Oct 6, 2022 12:12:08 GMT -6
If the US did this... well, wars have been started for less. Well, I suppose if Tucker Carlson is backing the Kremlin version of events, it must be true. I mean have all those bloggers said it was so too.
Irrational, without evidence, but then that has not stopped The Tuck before. |
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Post by nazcard on Oct 6, 2022 13:19:07 GMT -6
Former Pentagon honcho says it was a joint effort of the US and the Brits; now why might they want to do that? Because they feared Germany was going to back out of supporting the money laundering venture (AKA Ukraine).
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Post by Lurkin McGurkin on Oct 6, 2022 13:34:25 GMT -6
Well, I suppose if Tucker Carlson is backing the Kremlin version of events, it must be true. I mean have all those bloggers said it was so too.
Irrational, without evidence, but then that has not stopped The Tuck before. Not sure what Carlson has to do with this, but ok. Not really a fan. At least he shelved the bowties. |
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Post by 00hmh on Oct 6, 2022 14:07:55 GMT -6
Well, I suppose if Tucker Carlson is backing the Kremlin version of events, it must be true. I mean have all those bloggers said it was so too.
Irrational, without evidence, but then that has not stopped The Tuck before. Not sure what Carlson has to do with this, but ok. Not really a fan. At least he shelved the bowties. Kind of a trademark. I watched him bring up the Russian sabotage theory, which exchange is referenced in the link I put up above. I always thought of him as a sort of night time entertainer along the lines of Rush, and had never expected him (or CPAC) to become quite as much a fan of Putin and the world's dictators as he has.
Whatever happened to the days of William F Buckley!? Or even "Point, Counterpoint?" which was lighter weight. I'd like these guys better if it was intended to be funny, like Dan Aykroyd and Shana Alexander.
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