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Post by williamtsherman on Dec 17, 2023 15:10:29 GMT -6
KenPom
Year/BSU rank/ Nonconf SOS rank/ Wins
Buckley
2002 55 15 23
2003 169 45 13
2004 138 31 14
2005 96 72 15
2006 199 62 10
Thompson
2007 205 69 9
Taylor
2008 234 52 6
2009 240 211 14
2010 222 269 15
2011 164 203 19
2012 195 330 15
2013 253 295 15
Whitford
2014 296 50 5
2015 257 291 7
2016 155 347 21
2017 180 350 21
2018 173 195 19
2019 133 177 16
2020 116 111 18
2021 149 158 10
2022 267 317 14
Lewis
2023 171 298 20
2024 247 345
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Post by williamtsherman on Dec 17, 2023 15:13:43 GMT -6
A lot to unpack but one thing is that I did not realize how the strength of schedule absolutely fell off a cliff leading into the 2008-09 season and has never recovered. It's so dramatic, it had to be a conscious choice. Win totals before and after that have to be viewed in a totally different light.
The 2013-14 season is kind of comical in retrospect...if you have the sort of sick sense of humor I do. You had the one anomalously decent schedule of the last 15 years. You have a new and not-very-good coach inheriting a weak roster from the previous not-very-good coach. A perfect storm of BSU basketball program ineptness. And the result was a win total you could count on the fingers of one hand.
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Post by reevo on Dec 17, 2023 15:50:52 GMT -6
As our talent level decreased, the schedule got easier. We quit recruiting better and riskier recruits during Buckley’s tenure. The Bot had it with Rays recruiting and put the hammer down on Buckley. We may never see a group like we had in 2002 again.
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Post by cardfan on Dec 17, 2023 18:33:34 GMT -6
As our talent level decreased, the schedule got easier. We quit recruiting better and riskier recruits during Buckley’s tenure. The Bot had it with Rays recruiting and put the hammer down on Buckley. We may never see a group like we had in 2002 again. 100% true. Too many guys Ray recruited couldn’t avoid the police blotter or academic suspension. An assistant coach at that time told me they sweated semester grades every December because they didn’t know who might flunk out. He told me a star player had like a 1.5 Gpa….. another star, a local kid (not Bonzi) was certain to flunk out, but he didn’t. Somehow. The Ad at the time told me she had many conversations with a kid who’d been arrested for assault in the village. Evidently he was a polite kid but couldn’t stay out of trouble. Jerome Davis got busted for selling drugs. Ray Ray bailed him out of jail. I was good friends with a Bsu cop. He had STORIES about basketball players. It’s an absolute truth that the administration mandated a clean up. Ray was lowballed so he left. Buckley was hired to clean up the program. Then Gora came in and changed admissions policies that hurt recruiting severely. And yes, Buck fought Gora over it so she and Roy Budd made his life miserable. All leading to he who shall not be named and another huge blow to the program. Give Lewis time— he’ll get us back where we want to be. |
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Post by williamtsherman on Dec 17, 2023 19:23:07 GMT -6
Give Lewis time— he’ll get us back where we want to be. I'd feel a lot better about that assertion if I saw some...you know...evidence. And if we weren't currently sitting at 247. |
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Post by mattg on Dec 17, 2023 20:58:32 GMT -6
I see Herman and Sherman’s points here. Reason for optimism is that at least Coach Lewis is transparent and vocal. He acknowledges the good and the bad. Gives us the impression that positive change is on the horizon.
Reason for pessimism is that even though Coach Lewis acknowledges the bad, we have not seen any changes or evidence that the bad things are close to being fixed. Bad things being lack of physicality and being careless with the ball.
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Post by 00hmh on Dec 17, 2023 22:16:00 GMT -6
...we have not seen any changes or evidence that the bad things are close to being fixed. Bad things being lack of physicality and being careless with the ball. We did handle the ball better in the comeback. Middleton coming along to give us 3 guards. Doughty has to develop to add physical play. Hendrix has provided more of that than anyone expected. So...anyway, who expected us at this point to be either a physical team, or polished in the backcourt? Rebuilding with freshmen, we're where we expected to be. Probably not a contender this year, except possibly being a tough out in Cleveland. Sherm wants us totally rebuilt now. Doesn't very often happen that way. |
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Post by mattg on Dec 18, 2023 6:19:05 GMT -6
...we have not seen any changes or evidence that the bad things are close to being fixed. Bad things being lack of physicality and being careless with the ball. We did handle the ball better in the comeback. Middleton coming along to give us 3 guards. Doughty has to develop to add physical play. Hendrix has provided more of that than anyone expected. So...anyway, who expected us at this point to be either a physical team, or polished in the backcourt? Rebuilding with freshmen, we're where we expected to be. Probably not a contender this year, except possibly being a tough out in Cleveland. Sherm wants us totally rebuilt now. Doesn't very often happen that way. We don’t have to be a polished team to be physical, or vice versa. But it’s undeniable that if we’re neither then we’re going to struggle against average or decent teams. That’s why I share Sherm’s point of view….I don’t like that we’ve struggled against average teams for way too long now. |
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Post by williamtsherman on Dec 18, 2023 7:24:15 GMT -6
...we have not seen any changes or evidence that the bad things are close to being fixed. Bad things being lack of physicality and being careless with the ball. Sherm wants us totally rebuilt now. Doesn't very often happen that way. Wrong. But I certainly would like to see a significantly better roster and rating than #247 in a coach's 2nd year when the portal has made roster turnover so much faster and easier than it used to be. I'm surprised some others are so willing to accept this....no wait, I'm not surprised. |
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Post by 00hmh on Dec 18, 2023 8:40:01 GMT -6
Sherm wants us totally rebuilt now. Doesn't very often happen that way. Wrong. But I certainly would like to see a significantly better roster and rating than #247 in a coach's 2nd year when the portal has made roster turnover so much faster and easier than it used to be. I'm surprised some others are so willing to accept this....no wait, I'm not surprised. OK. Everybody wants more. But the portal takes away, not just gives. How much you lose is a factor. In the second year where we lost all but 2 in the rotation, 2 relatively late, "easier" turnover hurt us this year. After last season and before the portal we had a very good roster, added good pieces. Then lost more than we could replace quickly no matter how much "easier" it is. Didn't do badly in the portal either. One get in the portal is out injured, two doing rather well, and you ignore that getting good freshmen is part of the formula for success, even if slower payoff. Do you really think, factoring in freshmen with talent, our roster is 247 in the country? Or that we're standing pat if we don't see them develop? |
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Post by redbirdman on Dec 18, 2023 10:22:12 GMT -6
It's a very rare freshman who comes in his 1st semester & starts. Jones scores 12 pts a game the rest of the year like against ISU & we will be worrying about him going in the portal. While the losses to the portal certainly prevented us from being a conference contender the real key for Lewis is bringing back the players he recruited the next year if he wants them. I think Lewis is the best in game coach we have had in 25 yrs. The keys to his success ride on his recruiting & ability to keep the players here. A successful season with the players we have now is winning over half our games & finishing in the top half of the conference.
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Post by universityjim on Dec 18, 2023 11:24:28 GMT -6
Our success is going to be dependent on if we can figure out how to exploit the portal. Any freshman we recruit who's worth a damn will be gone after a year or two. If they are not they will be role players at best. Lewis' hard-nosed style unfortunately limits us in the portal in my opinion. I like his style but many kids these days don't.
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Post by williamtsherman on Dec 18, 2023 12:50:11 GMT -6
It's definitely not an either/or thing between recruiting freshman and getting transfers as the way to MAC success. I don't imagine any MAC coach will ever construct a championship roster without significant contributions from both sources. Naturally, we have to look outside of BSU to find examples of championship roster building since we haven't done jack squat in the MAC for 23 years...and counting.
Of the ten 1st or 2nd team pre-season all-MAC teams, six are transfers, three were recruited as freshman and one was a JUCO.
Having said above that both freshmen and transfers will be necessary, it should also be said that transfers seems to be the more important of the two. Four of the five 1st teamers are transfers, as was last years POY Ray J Dennis.
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Post by coastalcard on Dec 18, 2023 14:51:44 GMT -6
I took a look at overall basketball and football winning % for each year since Ball State entered the MAC
Roughly 1975 - present
There have been 48 seasons for basketball and 49 seasons for football.
By slicing down the middle and looking at first 24 years vs. last 24 years:
Basketball 58.2% wins in 1-24, 48.0% wins in 25-48
Football 55.7% wins in 1-24, 42.0% wins in 25-49
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Post by thebsukid on Dec 18, 2023 16:39:13 GMT -6
Get rid of D I football and focus on D I basketball
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