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Post by lmills72 on Jan 23, 2024 15:45:35 GMT -6
What is the cost of tuition + fees as BSU compared to other state-supported institutions?
At one time I thought tuition alone was higher than BSU at IU-Bloomington and Purdue and lower at Indiana State, IPFW. Don't know what the tuition + fees figures might be.
Just curious though if tuition + fees are higher at the Big Ten schools, what those students are paying for in extras since they don't have to subsidize their athletics to the level of BSU students.
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Post by 00hmh on Jan 23, 2024 15:48:18 GMT -6
Never heard a kid say they chose a school over Ball State because of Ball State's student activities fee. I agree jim, but The issue is longer term. Those fees are not being raised enough to support the escalating costs of FB. There is every year more pressure from the legislature to keep costs down, and more than a little sentiment to downgrade BSU in all areas. Although they do not dictate fees directly, they are influenced by them in our budget. They do not particularly value "excellence" in the institution as much as they value graduation rate and low cost education. |
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Post by 00hmh on Jan 23, 2024 16:01:14 GMT -6
What is the cost of tuition + fees as BSU compared to other state-supported institutions? At one time I thought tuition alone was higher than BSU at IU-Bloomington and Purdue and lower at Indiana State, IPFW. Don't know what the tuition + fees figures might be. Just curious though if tuition + fees are higher at the Big Ten schools, what those students are paying for in extras since they don't have to subsidize their athletics to the level of BSU students. Student fees are a slush fund everywhere. IU and PU can use it for (more expensive) cultural events, speakers, student organization. The costs are more easily sold, students expect more from them at the "higher quality" institution. Probably less resistance to fee increases there, too.
Sherm exaggerates the impact of fees on students choosing BSU, and the added marginal cost rarely is the issue if they are choosing between the second tier schools. He has a point though. And the costs probably contribute to attrition where students have to drop out or stop out. The initial choice is less clear, but there more students today are choosing the low road of using our JUCO system for cheap credit hours and transferring them elsewhere. The cost difference in doing that is not primarily fees, but both tuition and living costs where they can choose to stay home and take classes. We are competing in the race to low quality there with our on line degrees. Not that our on line aren't relatively good for on line...
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Post by williamtsherman on Jan 23, 2024 17:56:28 GMT -6
You guys need to crack an econ text some time. Adding a few thousand dollars to the cost of something DOES reduce the demand by a measurable number where the market is large. Whether the individuals in question ever report this decision to universityjim or not, I can't say.
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Post by JacksonStreetElite on Jan 23, 2024 17:59:19 GMT -6
No it's not. But that's irrelevant to this discussion, which is about student fees. When you choose to enroll at BSU, you pay the tuition and fees. You might not like the rock climbing wall, or the fancy bell tower, or the amphitheater, or the football program, but when you agree to pay the fees you don't get to earmark your portion of the fees to the expenses you like. That's utterly misguided. If you run a private business, you can add any bells and whistles you like and charge your customers for them and tell them if they don't like it, they can go piss up a rope and take their business elsewhere. You're risking going out of business, but that's your own concern. On the other hand, state and federal taxpayers are subsidizing Ball State to the tune of hundreds of millions of dollars a year. The idea is that this is justified to provide a college education at an affordable level for Indiana students, even if they usually still have to borrow money to afford it. To then add an extra one or two or three thousand dollar fee to the students' cost for something superfluous that brings zero benefit to the average student is completely contrary to the mission of the university. Being able to name other luxuries does not make the athletic expenditure any more justifiable. The downward sloping demand curve is a real thing in this size of a market. There ARE prospective student who have chosen not to come to BSU because of the those extra thousands per year in tuition. Their decision was close enough that it made a difference. The more honest football fans on this board have more or less accepted the following stance: "I enjoy BSU football and I want the students to keep on paying for it for my benefit" Sure, if you want to switch horses midstream from being a white knight for the taxpayers instead of a white knight for the student, that’s one way to argue. Either way you are extremely virtuous. I am not justifying the sports. I’d get rid of it all and have college be about the rigorous pursuit of truth. I’m not in charge. |
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Post by bsucardinalfan on Jan 23, 2024 18:11:02 GMT -6
You guys need to crack an econ text some time. Adding a few thousand dollars to the cost of something DOES reduce the demand by a measurable number where the market is large. Whether the individuals in question ever report this decision to universityjim or not, I can't say. Agreed raising cost lowers demand, but is the university struggling to hit enrollment goals? Or is there plenty of demand at even higher costs? |
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Post by williamtsherman on Jan 23, 2024 18:15:21 GMT -6
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Post by 00hmh on Jan 23, 2024 20:01:34 GMT -6
Not sure about virtue improving economic analysis.
Other suppliers are raising prices too. After price increases by all the suppliers in that large market it's not clear what happens to our market share. Aggregate demand for BSU product could increase...
And, depending on elasticity of that demand curve, BSU could increase profits by that price increase even at a lower equilibrium quantity.
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Post by williamtsherman on Jan 23, 2024 20:18:47 GMT -6
Not sure about virtue improving economic analysis. Other suppliers are raising prices too. After price increases by all the suppliers in that large market it's not clear what happens to our market share. Aggregate demand for BSU product could increase... And, depending on elasticity of that demand curve, BSU could increase profits by that price increase even at a lower equilibrium quantity. You seem confused about a couple things. The few thousand dollars in question is not an increase. It is the difference between two possible hypothetical tuition packages - with and without the fee. Demand would obviously be higher at the lower price...whatever the given scenario is with what other suppliers might do. And the increased tuition does not lead to a higher profit because, as I understand it, it goes directly to offset the costs of athletics. I dont think anyone has suggested keeping the fee and eliminating athletics. The mission of BSU is not to seek a profit anyway. Talk of demand elasticity is irrelevant...you only have to recognize that the demand curve is downward sloping. Jeez, isn't anyone here in the f----- business school? |
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Post by williamtsherman on Jan 23, 2024 20:24:10 GMT -6
You guys need to crack an econ text some time. Adding a few thousand dollars to the cost of something DOES reduce the demand by a measurable number where the market is large. Whether the individuals in question ever report this decision to universityjim or not, I can't say. Agreed raising cost lowers demand, but is the university struggling to hit enrollment goals? Or is there plenty of demand at even higher costs? Ok, I take my all-encompassing swipe back. The comment above is actually sensible. But I would counter that the mission of BSU is not to maximize revenue. Rather it has a mandate to serve students and the state of Indiana. Pushing students further into dept with wasteful fees is not in line with that, even if you still fill your freshman class spots. |
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Post by 00hmh on Jan 23, 2024 20:39:32 GMT -6
Not sure about virtue improving economic analysis. Other suppliers are raising prices too. After price increases by all the suppliers in that large market it's not clear what happens to our market share. Aggregate demand for BSU product could increase... And, depending on elasticity of that demand curve, BSU could increase profits by that price increase even at a lower equilibrium quantity. You seem confused about a couple things. The few thousand dollars in question is not an increase. It is the difference between two possible hypothetical tuition packages - with and without the fee. Demand would obviously be higher at the lower price...whatever the given scenario is with what other suppliers might do. Confused by analysis that is specious in criticizing BSU fees, Which are relatively modest. All pricing packaged include fees and tuition. What relevance is there in the real world in discussing a hypothetical package with no fee? Every comparable competitor institution has fees. So thousands of dollars difference is simply not sensible to talk about. Reducing use of fees for athletics to cover large deficit is sensible to discuss. Go back to your better argument about fees being used wastefully. BTW, also go back to the Econ text and look at how elasticity of demand is a factor in suppliers charging higher prices vs lower prices. Also, how competitors offering a similar substitute product for the BSU product have to be considered in pricing decisions |
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Post by 00hmh on Jan 23, 2024 20:46:49 GMT -6
Agreed raising cost lowers demand, but is the university struggling to hit enrollment goals? Or is there plenty of demand at even higher costs? Ok, I take my all-encompassing swipe back. The comment above is actually sensible. But I would counter that the mission of BSU is not to maximize revenue. Rather it has a mandate to serve students and the state of Indiana. Pushing students further into dept with wasteful fees is not in line with that, even if you still fill your freshman class spots. That's better, Sherm. BSU fees are probably not too high. How we use them is a fair issue. |
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Post by williamtsherman on Jan 23, 2024 21:01:35 GMT -6
. So thousands of dollars difference is simply not sensible to talk about. You might feel somewhat differently if you were...you know... borrowing money to cover that thousands of dollars. |
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Post by 00hmh on Jan 23, 2024 21:55:08 GMT -6
. So thousands of dollars difference is simply not sensible to talk about. You might feel somewhat differently if you were...you know... borrowing money to cover that thousands of dollars. Nobody is getting or would get in the real world your hypothetical zero fee pricing, Sherm. |
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Post by williamtsherman on Jan 24, 2024 7:15:01 GMT -6
Oh for f---- sake. There is no inexorable world force that dictates MAC students need to pay $10 million a year in fees to prop up their schools' idiotic "Division 1" football programs. That's what we are talking about here.
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