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Post by williamtsherman on Jan 25, 2024 9:27:17 GMT -6
The best figure I know to illustrate the vast mismatch between cost and interest is to divide the BSU football deficit by the total home attendance.
Of course the attendance is hard to know exactly because I think BSU's stated figures are characteristically unreliable, but let's say 48K home attendance for the year. Divide the $10 million loss by that and you get $208.
So for every person who attends a BSU football game, students have to pay $208 to put on the show. At least they are getting a pretty favorable interest rate on their loans they need to pay this.
As Winston Churchill once said about MAC football " Never have so many paid so much to benefit so few."
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Post by 00hmh on Jan 25, 2024 9:34:43 GMT -6
That's not such a good measure if, as the University will say, the value is not the show itself.
They say it's intangible good will, promotion and branding, advertising, plus it's a necessary evil to give us the other MAC sports, which except for FB is the best conference for us.
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Post by williamtsherman on Jan 25, 2024 10:01:12 GMT -6
It's a good measure to show the general magnitude of the stupidity.
It's also a measure that strongly suggests the "goodwill, promotion, branding, advertising" are failing due to lack of interest.
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Post by lmills72 on Jan 25, 2024 18:17:56 GMT -6
That's not such a good measure if, as the University will say, the value is not the show itself. They say it's intangible good will, promotion and branding, advertising, plus it's a necessary evil to give us the other MAC sports, which except for FB is the best conference for us. When folks start using words like "intangible" in their arguments, you know they don't have a foot to stand on. |
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Post by lmills72 on Jan 25, 2024 19:16:51 GMT -6
I could put together a spreadsheet that would quickly prove you wrong on this. A move down to FCS would eliminate 22 full-ride football scholarships, another 22 women's Title IX scholarships, football budget reductions, and budget reductions of the sports eliminated as a result of the 22 women's sports scholarships. If we dropped football altogether plus all or part of the associated 85 women's Title IX scholarships and subsequent budgets, you're talking about a roughly $15 million annual "savings". Even if we reinvested $5 million of that in the remaining sports (which would do wonders for the sports we SHOULD and COULD be competitive in), it would still reduce our annual athletic budget by $10 million. And $15 million may very well be conservative given BSU doesn't publish real football numbers and all associated costs (with virtually zero revenues relative to expenses). Football's impact on the overall athletic budget is 50% or more, especially when you factor in Title IX. A-10, MVC, and Big East members were smart to either avoid, divest of, or greatly reduce football spending. Football has been a huge black hole in MAC budgets for AT LEAST the last 20 years. They just keep throwing more and more money at it, and they've thrown donor naming money at it in terms of facilities and naming rights that would now cause extreme embarrassment if they dropped down or dumped the sport altogether. But here's what will happen...MAC schools will continue to pour $10-15+ million per year into football until they absolutely can't do it anymore. Good money chasing bad like an addicted gambler. That day is coming... I say screw cutting back and saving money. Let's just cut back and divide those scholarships between new men's soccer and track & field programs or, if we aren't fully optimizing scholarships for baseball, throw some at that program. |
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Post by 00hmh on Jan 25, 2024 20:02:00 GMT -6
That's not such a good measure if, as the University will say, the value is not the show itself. They say it's intangible good will, promotion and branding, advertising, plus it's a necessary evil to give us the other MAC sports, which except for FB is the best conference for us. When folks start using words like "intangible" in their arguments, you know they don't have a foot to stand on. The argument boils down to we can't change this. Or more accurately, it's very hard to do so, and the fix isn't clear. Easy to just dodge the question. To be fair, we do have other big problems. Some of the decision has to be that taking on this one on just isn't high priority. Yet. How long can the MAC can limp along? |
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Post by sdacardinal on Jan 26, 2024 10:29:01 GMT -6
Churchill made his comment " Never have so many paid so much to benefit so few" in 1946 Fulton , Missouri speech in reference to the newly formed Mid American Conference. also in that speech he mentioned that an "iron curtain" has descended upon Europe. Seems he was right in both instances.
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Post by JacksonStreetElite on Jan 29, 2024 21:23:12 GMT -6
That's not such a good measure if, as the University will say, the value is not the show itself. They say it's intangible good will, promotion and branding, advertising, plus it's a necessary evil to give us the other MAC sports, which except for FB is the best conference for us. When folks start using words like "intangible" in their arguments, you know they don't have a foot to stand on. Don't take this as a defense of 00, because I'm sure he has no clue what he's talking about. But Ball State's primary purpose is to provide an intangible. So when talking about value propositions in the educational context, I think you should be open to discussions about intangibles. |
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Post by cardfan on Jan 30, 2024 7:52:34 GMT -6
Sherm’s value to this board is intangible…..
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Post by Lurkin McGurkin on Jan 30, 2024 8:25:07 GMT -6
Sherm’s value to this board is intangible….. Not to mention undetectable. |
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Post by 00hmh on Jan 30, 2024 10:50:04 GMT -6
When folks start using words like "intangible" in their arguments, you know they don't have a foot to stand on. Don't take this as a defense of 00, because I'm sure he has no clue what he's talking about. But Ball State's primary purpose is to provide an intangible. So when talking about value propositions in the educational context, I think you should be open to discussions about intangibles. We may nonetheless agree on one thing. You, I and Sherm. The administration has to value intangibles highly to keep spending big bucks on MAC FB. |
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Post by cardfan on Jan 30, 2024 11:27:04 GMT -6
Don't take this as a defense of 00, because I'm sure he has no clue what he's talking about. But Ball State's primary purpose is to provide an intangible. So when talking about value propositions in the educational context, I think you should be open to discussions about intangibles. We may nonetheless agree on one thing. You, I and Sherm. The administration has to value intangibles highly to keep spending big bucks on MAC FB. Do we know yet just what those value added intangibles for MAC football are? Smaller crowds = easier to clean up stadium after games? Concessions don't have to commit to too much food? |
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Post by williamtsherman on Jan 30, 2024 11:32:23 GMT -6
"We may nonetheless agree on one thing. You, I and Sherm. The administration has to value intangibles highly to keep spending big bucks on MAC FB."
Actually I don't agree. Rather I think BSU and MAC conference administrators actions are primarily influenced by how things affect them personally. Football games provide them an opportunity to go and play the big shot. On the other hand, changing the current status quo would get them a lot of grief from a group that is vocal and has access to them. I don't think they particularly care to attempt to measure the "intangibles". In fact they would rather not. They are content to use "intangibles" as a excuse to not do anything that would cause them troubles personally.
I agree that they have to CLAIM to value intangibles highly for football to make any sense at all.
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Post by JacksonStreetElite on Jan 30, 2024 13:45:52 GMT -6
"We may nonetheless agree on one thing. You, I and Sherm. The administration has to value intangibles highly to keep spending big bucks on MAC FB." Actually I don't agree. Rather I think BSU and MAC conference administrators actions are primarily influenced by how things affect them personally. Football games provide them an opportunity to go and play the big shot. On the other hand, changing the current status quo would get them a lot of grief from a group that is vocal and has access to them. I don't think they particularly care to attempt to measure the "intangibles". In fact they would rather not. They are content to use "intangibles" as a excuse to not do anything that would cause them troubles personally. I agree that they have to CLAIM to value intangibles highly for football to make any sense at all. Wasn’t it yesterday you asked whether Mearn’s salary was sufficient to demand that he sit through dreg vs dreg basketball? But you think sitting through dreg vs. dreg football is so desirable that they’re putting their own selfish whims first to keep it? Makes perfect sense… |
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Post by williamtsherman on Jan 30, 2024 14:40:17 GMT -6
"We may nonetheless agree on one thing. You, I and Sherm. The administration has to value intangibles highly to keep spending big bucks on MAC FB." Actually I don't agree. Rather I think BSU and MAC conference administrators actions are primarily influenced by how things affect them personally. Football games provide them an opportunity to go and play the big shot. On the other hand, changing the current status quo would get them a lot of grief from a group that is vocal and has access to them. I don't think they particularly care to attempt to measure the "intangibles". In fact they would rather not. They are content to use "intangibles" as a excuse to not do anything that would cause them troubles personally. I agree that they have to CLAIM to value intangibles highly for football to make any sense at all. Wasn’t it yesterday you asked whether Mearn’s salary was sufficient to demand that he sit through dreg vs dreg basketball? But you think sitting through dreg vs. dreg football is so desirable that they’re putting their own selfish whims first to keep it? Makes perfect sense… The Mearns thing was a joke about how low the level is in some of these MAC games we play. Regardless of the quality of the basketball, I'm sure he enjoys the butt kissing he gets at games. |
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