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Post by universityjim on Jan 29, 2024 16:45:24 GMT -6
I don't think categorizing the size of the fanbase based on in person attendance is valid. We've always had a bandwagon bunch of fans. When the teams do something to make them excited they come out of the woodwork. We haven't done much to excite anyone in the past 20+ years.
If we can pull in 6K for a game last year with a team that was just starting to show some promise, if we put a team that actually excites people like ISU has this season we'd draw 8K for a big conference game. Not every game but if the game meant something.
If we can put 15K in the stands to watch a bad football team once a season we can put 8K in the stands to watch a really good basketball team.
There are challenges we didn't have in 1990 like every game being on TV and a smaller population in Delaware County (119,659 1990 to 112,081 in 2023), but the living Alumni group is not getting smaller every year even though some are dying. On campus enrollment is not what it was in 1990 either even though the enrollment of the university is up overall.
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Post by 00hmh on Jan 29, 2024 17:39:13 GMT -6
I don't think categorizing the size of the fanbase based on in person attendance is valid. We've always had a bandwagon bunch of fans. When the teams do something to make them excited they come out of the woodwork. We haven't done much to excite anyone in the past 20+ years. If we can pull in 6K for a game last year with a team that was just starting to show some promise, if we put a team that actually excites people like ISU has this season we'd draw 8K for a big conference game. Not every game but if the game meant something. New grads are additions if they were fans when on campus. Students aren't as interested in BB to start with as they once were, but a good team and an event draws them out. That is very much fair weather fandom, though.
The other issues with new grads are they move away from Muncie, more now than ever out of state, and that they are starting careers and family which conflict with traveling to a game.
Back in the day we had a bigger group of Muncie, Delaware County fans, some of that going back to the Muncie Central influence, and other local players. If you look at HS enrollment and interest in HS BB it is declining. If you are looking at locals and see both fewer of them and lower income it isn't good news for marketing BSU sports. That BSU retirees now more frequently move away is different.
If you look at this over 20 years you can't discount the change TV has made. We have a fair number of season ticket holders on this board, but an awful lot of us watch on TV. When I'm out of town I give tickets away but my daughter who has BSU ties and has kids in school here finds weekend time tight, and travels on business. Night games are a no go.
Those of us with silver hair represent a large proportion of the season ticket holders.
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Post by david75bsu on Jan 29, 2024 19:30:29 GMT -6
“I feel that, if we could put together two good years of basketball against good competition, we could eaisly get back to 6,000+ in attendance. Much beyond that, unless we play BIG10 level competition at home is a dream. Need to reconfigure the inside of the area to seat no more than 7,000. Close it for a year, take the roof off, take the walls down to allow for a reduction of seating to 6-7,000, put the roof back on and get back to having a near capacity and loud house. The arena is WAY OVERBUILT!
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Post by 00hmh on Jan 29, 2024 20:37:15 GMT -6
“I feel that, if we could put together two good years of basketball against good competition, we could eaisly get back to 6,000+ in attendance. That would be almost the average '89 to '01. With much different demographics and good teams. Needed many more season ticket holders to do that with some very good teams visiting Muncie, some bringing fans with them.
We can get an occasional single game at 6,000. It would be a game with major importance that we promoted heavily and brought out more students. Dollar Dawgs, half time entertainment and a big game!
A different configuration of the Arena is not a cost effective way to improve attendance, a 7,000 seat venue with sky boxes, and all the trimmings would at best marginally improve attendance. On the occasion we had a sellout it would rock, I agree. But, better make that 6000 seats...
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Post by rmcalhoun on Jan 29, 2024 21:22:48 GMT -6
Highschool Basketball interest is not declining in Deleware county. Its declined only cause Central has also sucked if they were good people would come... You cant Get a seat at a Delta game. The fire Marshall had to come out and warn Delta for tge Yorktown game. Yorktown is also drawing great. Wapahani selling out . Just gotta get Central exciting again
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Post by universityjim on Jan 29, 2024 21:57:18 GMT -6
“I feel that, if we could put together two good years of basketball against good competition, we could eaisly get back to 6,000+ in attendance. Much beyond that, unless we play BIG10 level competition at home is a dream. Need to reconfigure the inside of the area to seat no more than 7,000. Close it for a year, take the roof off, take the walls down to allow for a reduction of seating to 6-7,000, put the roof back on and get back to having a near capacity and loud house. The arena is WAY OVERBUILT! Tell the people looking for seats at winter graduation it's overbuilt. It's more than just a basketball arena. |
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Post by williamtsherman on Jan 30, 2024 7:19:16 GMT -6
Highschool Basketball interest is not declining in Deleware county. Its declined only cause Central has also sucked if they were good people would come... You cant Get a seat at a Delta game. The fire Marshall had to come out and warn Delta for tge Yorktown game. Yorktown is also drawing great. Wapahani selling out . Just gotta get Central exciting again Yes. There is a good deal of interest in GOOD basketball locally. BSU should make an effort to find out. And, no, the Ronnie Thompson fiasco does not count. |
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Post by cardfan on Jan 30, 2024 7:55:39 GMT -6
Highschool Basketball interest is not declining in Deleware county. Its declined only cause Central has also sucked if they were good people would come... You cant Get a seat at a Delta game. The fire Marshall had to come out and warn Delta for tge Yorktown game. Yorktown is also drawing great. Wapahani selling out . Just gotta get Central exciting again Yes. There is a good deal of interest in GOOD basketball locally. BSU should make an effort to find out. And, no, the Ronnie Thompson fiasco does not count. Now Sherm, you know damn well that person and The Little Man from EMU Who Haunted Us shall not be named. |
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Post by 00hmh on Jan 30, 2024 8:34:29 GMT -6
Highschool Basketball interest is not declining in Deleware county. Its declined only cause Central has also sucked if they were good people would come... You cant Get a seat at a Delta game. The fire Marshall had to come out and warn Delta for tge Yorktown game. Yorktown is also drawing great. Wapahani selling out . Just gotta get Central exciting again Rob, look at total attendance state wide and in Delaware County. Look at those numbers 2000- present. Yorktown, Delta are doing pretty well right now, but enrollment and BB are not going to provide growth in fan base. Central/Southside city enrollment is not coming back. Moreover, those attendance numbers in Delaware are not producing BSU students passionate about BB. Or D1 players who stay home and bring in fans. |
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Post by williamtsherman on Jan 30, 2024 8:48:46 GMT -6
What exactly is your point? That it's not worth trying to have a championship contending program with occasional NCAA tourney appearances because Delaware County and the fanbase in general will not come watch anyway?
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Post by 00hmh on Jan 30, 2024 9:43:27 GMT -6
What exactly is your point? That it's not worth trying to have a championship contending program with occasional NCAA tourney appearances because Delaware County and the fanbase in general will not come watch anyway? Of course not. But, you're the one suggesting we can greatly expand a fan base headed the other way. I grant that a good team will help, but you seem to think demographics is just not an important factor In particular you are ignoring differences in students, local market, and TV compared to 30 years ago. Rob's citation of HS attendance cuts two ways. Those HS fans have only so much time they can use sitting in paid seating. Rob knows this. He does both HS and BSU, kudos to him, but how many super fans can we find? |
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Post by universityjim on Jan 30, 2024 10:00:53 GMT -6
My wife's aunt became a huge BSU football fan in 2008 because of how much fun that team was. She never attended a single game. She was in her 70's then. She lives north of Lafayette which the last I checked is not in Delaware County or ECI. She was not prompted by any of us to become a fan. It surprised the hell out of us. She became a fan because of how good that specific team was. Beating IU might have had something to do with it even though that whole side of the family are IU fans. Is that not growing the fan base?
Why is the size of the "fan base" dependent on students and local market. None of my kids live in Indiana. They are all alumni and as big of BSU football and basketball fans as I am but their location makes it next to impossible to attend home games. My two year old grandson sings all the words of the Ball State fight song. Are they no longer in the "fan base" because of where they live?
Home attendance yes. Fan base?
Sorry kids, you moved out of state. Your can't be Ball State fans anymore and can never attend a home football or basketball game again. Go find another school to be your team.
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Post by comet on Jan 30, 2024 10:34:47 GMT -6
But the two are very different things, Jim.
Fan base can stretch anywhere.
Attendees, not so much.
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Post by 00hmh on Jan 30, 2024 10:46:27 GMT -6
But the two are very different things, Jim. Fan base can stretch anywhere. Attendees, not so much. Fans are welcome, maybe they will someday support BSU financially, our alumni are an asset to the school. Still, I don't understand how these remote "fans" who return home to see Mom and Dad in Angola or Indy or elsewhere are relevant to athletics very much, including attendance.
My understanding is that the General thinks a fan base will fuel change in the BB program in some way? I'm all for promoting BB with students and the community and alumni far away. I just don't think it holds much hope of turning the clock back to 1990.
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Post by williamtsherman on Jan 30, 2024 10:46:56 GMT -6
What exactly is your point? That it's not worth trying to have a championship contending program with occasional NCAA tourney appearances because Delaware County and the fanbase in general will not come watch anyway? Of course not. But, you're the one suggesting we can greatly expand a fan base headed the other way. I grant that a good team will help, but you seem to think demographics is just not an important factor In particular you are ignoring differences in students, local market, and TV compared to 30 years ago. Rob's citation of HS attendance cuts two ways. Those HS fans have only so much time they can use sitting in paid seating. Rob knows this. He does both HS and BSU, kudos to him, but how many super fans can we find? Maybe instead of creating a ridiculous, exaggerated straw man versions of peoples' points and then trying to bury them underneath a dreary pile of conventional wisdom and truisms, you could engage what people actually say. For example, what level of attendance have I ever mentioned that is unrealistic? You have an example....right? |
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