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Post by realitycheck on Jul 8, 2024 12:47:58 GMT -6
Back to the original topic, Biden was depantsed and his efforts since to appear cognitive and competent have also failed miserably. His state of mind is sad and his loony wife and handlers should be ashamed.
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Post by williamtsherman on Jul 8, 2024 18:55:57 GMT -6
Depantsed and found to be wearing a drooping full Depends undergarment
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Post by david75bsu on Jul 9, 2024 5:17:09 GMT -6
This dangerous thing is the biggest lie/fabrication the Democrats have said! The world was at peace under Trump, the economy the strongest, when COVID hit Trump got into action and said the hell with all the rules-get a vaccine developed ASAP and it gets done (then Biden takes credit for it), the wall was being built and illegal immigration was virtually nothing, taxes were reduced and filling taxes for us retired people was easy as pie, gas prices were low, inflation was very low, my retirement account was growing strong! Then cam Biden and all bets were off! The world and our nation are now on fire, inflation has eaten away our incomes, energy has become expensive, as is buying a house! This world and our country are unstable to the point of near collapse and the guy in the White Hose has no clue! lord help us.
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Post by williamtsherman on Jul 9, 2024 6:11:38 GMT -6
Joe Biden (or more likely his care-takers) correctly points out:
We had a Democratic nomination process and the voters have spoken clearly and decisively. I received over 14 million votes, 87% of the votes cast across the entire nominating process. I have nearly 3,000 delegates, making me the presumptive nominee of our party by a wide margin..... The voters of the Democratic Party have voted. They have chosen me to be the nominee of the party.
Yes, they have. In other words, Democrats now have EXACTLY what they deserve. I wonder if any of them have learned any lessons at all from this experience on what "news sources" to trust for information? Will they now apply any skepticism to things they hear about, say for example, Donald Trump from these same establishment media sources that failed them so badly and treated them like idiots? Will they still uncritically gobble down thinly disguised Democratic party talking points pretending to be new stories?
Probably they will. But maybe some of our Democrat-leaning friends on this board can weigh in, if they are not too embarrassed to.
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Post by villagepub on Jul 9, 2024 6:40:34 GMT -6
Almost all social programs, if not all, fall of out the scope of the Consititution. Each state has a unique complexion. They should decide these matters at the state level. Hold on a minute. That statement is in part quite incorrect.
You are citing above the Articles of Confederation, from 1777 which are of course the original very loose organization under which the United States operated during the war of independence.
After the United States had won independence, the states met in the Constitutional Convention in Philadelphia in 1787 and set aside that "confederation" and created the United States under the US Constitution. That document you cite is not the Constitution.
As a result you are perhaps overlooking the operational language in Article VI of the Constituion (known as the Supremacy Clause):
"This Constitution, and the Laws of the United States which shall be made in Pursuance thereof; and all Treaties made, or which shall be made, under the Authority of the United States, shall be the supreme Law of the Land; and the Judges in every State shall be bound thereby, any Thing in the Constitution or Laws of any State to the Contrary notwithstanding."
The 10th Amendment does say:
"The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people."
While states may have in some sense "sovereignty" the Constitution does expressly delegate quite a bit of specific powers to the federal government. Including an Executive Branch, Judicial Branch and Legislative Branch. These did not exist in that form under the Articles of Confederation. The Constitution gives each branch powers over the states.
Article I section 8 of the Constitution gives legislative powers to the Congress. Note that the last clause gives quite a bit of "specific" flexibility to do what is "necessary and proper" to do any of the other designated powers. The Courts decide what is necessary and proper if the Congress acts and it is disputed.
The Commerce Power is also quite broad since there is very little commerce in the US which is NOT interstate in nature. VERY FEW businesses deal only with customers or suppliers from ONLY that state. That was not true in 1789, where there was much more commerce just intrastate, but the framers realized the evils of tariff or other constraints by one state on another in commerce and decided the federal government should have power to regulate interstate commerce.
Section 8: Powers of Congress
The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;
To borrow Money on the credit of the United States;
To regulate Commerce with foreign Nations, and among the several States, and with the Indian Tribes;
To establish a uniform Rule of Naturalization, and uniform Laws on the subject of Bankruptcies throughout the United States;
To coin Money, regulate the Value thereof, and of foreign Coin, and fix the Standard of Weights and Measures;
To provide for the Punishment of counterfeiting the Securities and current Coin of the United States;
To establish Post Offices and post Roads;
To promote the Progress of Science and useful Arts, by securing for limited Times to Authors and Inventors the exclusive Right to their respective Writings and Discoveries;
To constitute Tribunals inferior to the supreme Court;
To define and punish Piracies and Felonies committed on the high Seas, and Offences against the Law of Nations;
To declare War, grant Letters of Marque and Reprisal, and make Rules concerning Captures on Land and Water;
To raise and support Armies, but no Appropriation of Money to that Use shall be for a longer Term than two Years;
To provide and maintain a Navy;
To make Rules for the Government and Regulation of the land and naval Forces;
To provide for calling forth the Militia to execute the Laws of the Union, suppress Insurrections and repel Invasions;
To provide for organizing, arming, and disciplining, the Militia, and for governing such Part of them as may be employed in the Service of the United States, reserving to the States respectively, the Appointment of the Officers, and the Authority of training the Militia according to the discipline prescribed by Congress;
To exercise exclusive Legislation in all Cases whatsoever, over such District (not exceeding ten Miles square) as may, by Cession of particular States, and the Acceptance of Congress, become the Seat of the Government of the United States, and to exercise like Authority over all Places purchased by the Consent of the Legislature of the State in which the Same shall be, for the Erection of Forts, Magazines, Arsenals, dock-Yards and other needful Buildings;-And
To make all Laws which shall be necessary and proper for carrying into Execution the foregoing Powers, and all other Powers vested by this Constitution in the Government of the United States, or in any Department or Officer thereof.
I used both documents to show a consistent theme within the creation of the country to allow Federal government to handle the basics, and allow states to set the direction for their own people.
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Post by 00hmh on Jul 9, 2024 10:07:43 GMT -6
Hold on a minute.
Article VI of the Constituion (known as the Supremacy Clause):
"This Constitution, and the Laws of the United States which shall be made in Pursuance thereof; and all Treaties made, or which shall be made, under the Authority of the United States, shall be the supreme Law of the Land; and the Judges in every State shall be bound thereby, any Thing in the Constitution or Laws of any State to the Contrary notwithstanding."
The 10th Amendment does say:
"The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people."
While states may have in some sense "sovereignty" the Constitution does expressly delegate quite a bit of specific powers to the federal government. Including an Executive Branch, Judicial Branch and Legislative Branch. These did not exist in that form under the Articles of Confederation. The Constitution gives each branch powers over the states.
Article I section 8 of the Constitution gives legislative powers to the Congress. Note that the last clause gives quite a bit of "unspecific" flexibility to do what is "necessary and proper" to do any of the other designated powers. The Courts decide what is necessary and proper if the Congress acts and it is disputed.
The Commerce Power is also quite broad since there is very little commerce in the US which is NOT interstate in nature. VERY FEW businesses deal only with customers or suppliers from ONLY that state. That was not true in 1789, where there was much more commerce just intrastate, but the framers realized the evils of tariff or other constraints by one state on another in commerce and decided the federal government should have power to regulate interstate commerce.
Section 8: Powers of Congress
The Congress shall have Power...
To regulate Commerce with foreign Nations, and among the several States, and with the Indian Tribes...
To make all Laws which shall be necessary and proper for carrying into Execution the foregoing Powers, and all other Powers vested by this Constitution in the Government of the United States, or in any Department or Officer thereof. I used both documents to show a consistent theme within the creation of the country to allow Federal government to handle the basics, and allow states to set the direction for their own people. I'm not so sure that is entirely the case. The Articles of Confederation created a VERY lose coalition of independent colonies, which idea was rejected when the Constitution was approved.
That language you cite is not very relevant about state powers now.
It's only partly true states handle the basics, and partly the reverse. The federal government has clear and exclusive jurisdiction on some things. There are specific enumerated powers, like a post office, declaring war, and so on that had to be federal. If you want to call that detail. And, in fact, basic everyday matters of law are state matters to start with, states can make any law which aims to protect the health and welfare of their citizens. (called State Police Power, but not meaning law enforcement only)
Except. It is limited. Many aspects of everyday life conflict with federal powers, and many may require some uniform national laws to make sure local law is not interfering with the commerce clause, or other federal power.
There is a notable principle called preemption which says the states should keep out of some areas. Preemption might prevent some laws on basics. And, sometimes the federal and state government make actually conflicting laws, both with the legitimate power to regulate. The Supremacy clause says federal law rules.
There is a balancing test on preemption where there is no direct conflict. For example if a state wants to create a rule about trains not being too long and blocking intersections, that pertains to local interests, but it would impact commerce across state lines. Indiana had such a case exactly like that. Which is why South Tillotson at the McDonald's is sometimes blocked by trains...
So it boils down to that if Congress determines a matter is interstate commerce related (or related to other federal power) they certainly can take action under that power, and overrule a state law. Courts interpret the law using preemption and supremacy principles under the Constitution to create a balance.
When the Constitution was created, there was much less interstate commerce. That is the source of the single greatest change in our legal structure. Now, almost all commerce is interstate, so the federal government now has much greater power. The Constitution hasn't changed, the world has.
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Post by williamtsherman on Jul 9, 2024 16:01:07 GMT -6
Once again, if you guys aren't following along with the daily presidential election odds these last couple weeks, you are missing out on some fun. linkFor some reason, Kamala's odds plummeted yesterday evening after having been neck and neck with Biden for about 5 days. Obviously, this is all around what Biden will do, or be told to do, or be forced to do, or whatever. Apparently, the tea leaves over the last 24 hours indicate Biden is staying in. The comedy value of this has already been absolute pure gold and it could be a fall campaign of non-stop hilarity.
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Post by sdacardinal on Jul 9, 2024 16:03:30 GMT -6
If Trump has his way this this whole conversation becomes mute. Would like to have seen the Bill of Rights in this conversation. The Articles of Confederation went to far with states rights versus a central government and left the 13 colonies/states vulnerable to threats once again from France and Spain. Very difficult to do inter state business with 13 different forms of money and exchange rates. The creation of the Euro is an attempt to solve this problem. Because of this Europe has amore stable economy even if not great. Ben Franklin said that " If we don't hang together we will surly hang separately". Oh he was also 81 years old and in much worse shape that Biden is now. Franklin had to be carried into the convention. His body was shot but his mind was still sharp. His words at this point in our history are as important than they were then. " A republic if you can keep it".
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Post by williamtsherman on Jul 10, 2024 7:29:12 GMT -6
I suppose you guys all know what is going to happen if Biden stays in?
The establishment media has made an extreme U-turn since their scam was revealed to the public at the debate. They are now being quite critical of Biden in hopes of getting him replaced on the ballot. (note that this, of course, is because they are afraid they will lose an election and lose power, not because they have any concerns at all about a head of cauliflower in the oval office).
If and when it becomes clear Biden is definitely staying in they will immediately perform ANOTHER U-TURN and start doing all they can to cover Biden's missteps and blame the evil right-wingers for "disinformation" about Biden's condition. And they wont show any more contrition or embarrassment than they did over their first U-turn.
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Post by 00hmh on Jul 10, 2024 8:58:04 GMT -6
If Trump has his way this this whole conversation becomes mute. Would like to have seen the Bill of Rights in this conversation. The Articles of Confederation went to far with states rights versus a central government and left the 13 colonies/states vulnerable to threats once again from France and Spain. Very difficult to do inter state business with 13 different forms of money and exchange rates. The creation of the Euro is an attempt to solve this problem. Because of this Europe has amore stable economy even if not great. Ben Franklin said that " If we don't hang together we will surly hang separately". Oh he was also 81 years old and in much worse shape that Biden is now. Franklin had to be carried into the convention. His body was shot but his mind was still sharp. His words at this point in our history are as important than they were then. " A republic if you can keep it". Most if the framers thought the Bill of Rights was unnecessary, that those principles were obvious. In the debate about ratification of the Constitution the BOR was born. More than 10 amendments were proposed and 10 passed. There is more than a little debate about whether the BOR actually changed things much.
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Post by williamtsherman on Jul 10, 2024 9:17:02 GMT -6
There is more than a little debate about whether the BOR actually changed things much. I'm not familiar with this debate, but my sense is that it means a ton to have these things officially written down and approved as the law of the land.
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Post by JacksonStreetElite on Jul 10, 2024 9:54:36 GMT -6
There is more than a little debate about whether the BOR actually changed things much. I'm not familiar with this debate, but my sense is that it means a ton to have these things officially written down and approved as the law of the land. There is a pretty sound reasoning that the bill of rights should not have been adopted. With a federal government of explicit and limited powers, naming a bunch of things it cannot do opens the door to arguing "why would you say it can't do these specific things unless it otherwise could?" The 9th and 10th were intended to stop that argument. They failed.
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Post by 00hmh on Jul 10, 2024 10:12:02 GMT -6
There is more than a little debate about whether the BOR actually changed things much. I'm not familiar with this debate, but my sense is that it means a ton to have these things officially written down and approved as the law of the land. The US is a Common Law Jurisdiction. Much of the law is intended to be decided by cases and is based on quite general principles. And to allow Courts to decide cases not considered previously.
The Roman Civil Law system of law is used in much of the world, everything written down and if it isn't courts are powerless has had any number of serious glitches since the Roman Empire, especially where legislatures are dysfunctional. If they are functional, great, but then they can create statutes and the Courts role is reduced.
Writing things down sounds great until you run into something you forgot to write down, or had never considered and need an answer. And in matters of fundamental rights and principles "writing them down" is harder than it sounds until you have a case in front of you. The old saying that I cannot define pornography but know it when I see it has some application here.
As the world changes some flexibility may be desirable.
The idea we'd have to go through a Constitutional Amendment process to "add" a basic right that is not specifically enumerated but everyone had assumed to exist is one reason a Common Law Jurisdiction works well.
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Post by rusty on Jul 10, 2024 11:45:18 GMT -6
Trump is a convicted criminal fraud sexual predator and never tells the truth if you all are supporting him you are not much better. I guarantee all of you will regret voting for him. If you Read project 2025 the Republican platform it rings of Russia and North Korea !
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Post by realitycheck on Jul 10, 2024 11:58:33 GMT -6
Trump is a convicted criminal fraud sexual predator and never tells the truth if you all are supporting him you are not much better. I guarantee all of you will regret voting for him. If you Read project 2025 the Republican platform it rings of Russia and North Korea ! You convinced me! This open border, high inflation, high gas price and Drag Queen story hour is really appealing. And knowing our current POTUS can't even read a bingo card at the nursing home is really assuring. Thanks for confirming what we already knew about your opinions.
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