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Post by williamtsherman on Jul 14, 2024 15:40:11 GMT -6
Stupid young men with access to deadly weapons... particularly when combined with a sweet shooting perch 150 yards from a presidential candidate. |
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Post by villagepub on Jul 14, 2024 15:44:45 GMT -6
Well just to start at the top " End no fault divorce" and "Ban contraceptives" are both entirely false and fabricated from nothing in the original document. There are a number of other outright lies and a lot more misleadingly stated points. It's not at all difficult to identify them. I'll agree to a lot of that. that the graphic is false or partly false in many parts, and I'd agree it is more than just oversimplified on many points. Mostly it is objectionable as a summary of Project 2025. It includes positions not contained there. But, most of the positions there are advocated by groups on the advisory board, although NOT actually literally included in the Project 2025 900 pages.
The report itself is more moderate than many of it's advisory board members, and has some details that I would call good ideas, too.
However, the points made in the graphic that are strictly speaking false, or overbroad, have some truth in them, deserve some attention, and the graphic does represent fairly positions made by those on the right which related to the Project 2025.
Project 2025 does propose changes in the ACA, ending no cost coverage of contraception under the Affordable Care Act. While that doses not ban contraception it definitely makes the commonly needed "emergency" contraception (morning after) harder to get or unavailable to many. About 1/4 of reproductive age women might have this benefit removed if the proposed change was made.
So let's agree to give the graphic a poor Pinocchio rating.
OTOH, it is not idiotic to believe the Trump wing of the GOP supports most of the statements in the graphic. The contributors and advisors to Project 2025 include many Trump former staffers who have said things identical to or close to each of the points in the graphic.
So false or partly false I buy. That the graphic is a set of good talking points, that I would also buy into.
Trump claims to know nothing about Project 2025, but I wonder how many quotes we could find from him that would map to the graphic pretty well? We know he asked the platform committee to ditch the abortion plank that's been there since '84. The actual GOP platform has been sanitized to be so vague and general that how it relates to the graphic is that a Trump rally goer who has heard the claims in the graphic would probably read the two to be pretty much the same...
Anything that is "partly false" is "wholy untrue." |
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Post by sdacardinal on Jul 14, 2024 16:15:47 GMT -6
Mark Twain's comment " that history doesn't repeat itself but tends to rhyme" has some truth to it. Thinking about the recent assassination attempt I looked up the assassination attempt on Teddy Roosevelt in October of 1912. He had taken the progressive wing of the republican party and formed a third party (split in the party) He was campaigning in Milwaukee and was shot. He was saved because the bullet hit his steel glasses case and then passed through his folded fifty page speech into his chest. He continued his speech and later found that the bullet was logged in his chest but would do no harm if left. He carried the bullet for the rest of his life. I don't know when it will ever stop but the calls for peace and unity and the end of violence are appropriate. I don't know how you stop it when violence is part of our DNA. H. Rap Brown had a point when he said that "Violence is American as cheery pie". Extremist on the left or right are a threat to democracy in the 60s it was Bill Ayres setting off bombs in government buildings. Today it is the far right trying to remake America into a perceived image. The country was founded in violence and violence fueled Manifest Destiney.
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Post by 00hmh on Jul 14, 2024 18:43:58 GMT -6
That you can't summarize a 900 page document in one graphic guarantees the graphic is partially true at best. That doesn't mean wholey untrue though.
That the graphic includes other over simplied statements, related to Trump positions and heritage foundation positions, doesn't help.
It is partially true, at worst.
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Post by chirpchirpcards on Jul 14, 2024 18:50:43 GMT -6
Mark Twain's comment " that history doesn't repeat itself but tends to rhyme" has some truth to it. Thinking about the recent assassination attempt I looked up the assassination attempt on Teddy Roosevelt in October of 1912. He had taken the progressive wing of the republican party and formed a third party (split in the party) He was campaigning in Milwaukee and was shot. He was saved because the bullet hit his steel glasses case and then passed through his folded fifty page speech into his chest. He continued his speech and later found that the bullet was logged in his chest but would do no harm if left. He carried the bullet for the rest of his life. I don't know when it will ever stop but the calls for peace and unity and the end of violence are appropriate. I don't know how you stop it when violence is part of our DNA. H. Rap Brown had a point when he said that "Violence is American as cheery pie". Extremist on the left or right are a threat to democracy in the 60s it was Bill Ayres setting off bombs in government buildings. Today it is the far right trying to remake America into a perceived image. The country was founded in violence and violence fueled Manifest Destiney. Imagine today's electorate trying to sit through a 50-page speech! |
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Post by williamtsherman on Jul 14, 2024 20:46:04 GMT -6
That you can't summarize a 900 page document in one graphic guarantees the graphic is partially true at best. That doesn't mean wholey untrue though. That the graphic includes other over simplied statements, related to Trump positions and heritage foundation positions, doesn't help. It is partially true, at worst. Yeah right. They're just a helpful group of folks trying to do a difficult job of helpfully summarizing a longer document in order to be helpful. That's why they just...you know...made a bunch of shit up completely out of nothing. It always helps in a summary if you just make a bunch of shit up that is nowhere to be found in the original. Thats a best practice. That's a value add. |
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Post by williamtsherman on Jul 14, 2024 20:52:51 GMT -6
Although I have expressed disdain for Joe Biden and his current vegetative condition, I have to admit that he came up with a fascinating idea today. He suggested that "in America, we resolve our differences at the Battle Box." Not clear on the details, but this sounds like a lot of fun. I'm all for it. Although I don't fancy Biden's odds at anything called the "battle box", since he can't even walk from here to there without being directed and assisted by his wife, or Barack Obama, or somebody.
(this is going to be a fun 4 months)
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Post by 00hmh on Jul 14, 2024 21:44:47 GMT -6
That you can't summarize a 900 page document in one graphic guarantees the graphic is partially true at best. That doesn't mean wholey untrue though. That the graphic includes other over simplied statements, related to Trump positions and heritage foundation positions, doesn't help. It is partially true, at worst. Yeah right. They're just a helpful group of folks trying to do a difficult job of helpfully summarizing a longer document in order to be helpful. That's why they just...you know...made a bunch of shit up completely out of nothing. It always helps in a summary if you just make a bunch of shit up that is nowhere to be found in the original. That overstates the case. The "made up out of nothing" stuff can be found circulating among Trump supporters, so it's not entirely irrelevant. Those ideas are not made up by the authors of the graphic. Granting much of the "made up" material was not found in the 2025 document, itself, but it is found in other sources including much of it from the authors and advisors to authors of that report. That's not quite as bad. |
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Post by williamtsherman on Jul 15, 2024 6:04:57 GMT -6
The graphic is clearly titled "Project 2025" and then lists a bunch of stuff that is nowhere to be found in Project 2025. But I am not surprised that someone who habitually misrepresents other people's posts on a sports forum would defend a sleazy, dishonest document. Liars stick together I guess.
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Post by villagepub on Jul 15, 2024 7:04:26 GMT -6
Although I have expressed disdain for Joe Biden and his current vegetative condition, I have to admit that he came up with a fascinating idea today. He suggested that "in America, we resolve our differences at the Battle Box." Not clear on the details, but this sounds like a lot of fun. I'm all for it. Although I don't fancy Biden's odds at anything called the "battle box", since he can't even walk from here to there without being directed and assisted by his wife, or Barack Obama, or somebody. (this is going to be a fun 4 months) Biden caught himself before he actually said, "Let's Make America Great Again." |
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Post by williamtsherman on Jul 15, 2024 14:58:58 GMT -6
In a campaign, there is always a balance between firing up your base for turnout purposes and convincing the undecideds. About now, I would think Trump's base is about as fired up as a base can be. I would think he should focus on the undecideds at this point. Ok, which one of you is leaking my thoughts to the Trump campaign. Trump explained that before Saturday night, he had finished the speech he planned to give later this week at the Republican convention. “I basically had a speech that was an unbelievable rip-roarer,” he said. “It was brutal — really good, really tough. [Last night] I threw it out. I think it would be very bad if I got up and started going wild about how horrible everybody is and how corrupt and crooked, even if it’s true. Had this not happened, we had a speech that was pretty well set that was extremely tough. Now, we have a speech that is more unifying.” |
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Post by 00hmh on Jul 15, 2024 15:43:10 GMT -6
In a campaign, there is always a balance between firing up your base for turnout purposes and convincing the undecideds. About now, I would think Trump's base is about as fired up as a base can be. I would think he should focus on the undecideds at this point. Ok, which one of you is leaking my thoughts to the Trump campaign. Trump explained that before Saturday night, he had finished the speech he planned to give later this week at the Republican convention. “I basically had a speech that was an unbelievable rip-roarer,” he said. “It was brutal — really good, really tough. [Last night] I threw it out. I think it would be very bad if I got up and started going wild about how horrible everybody is and how corrupt and crooked, even if it’s true. Had this not happened, we had a speech that was pretty well set that was extremely tough. Now, we have a speech that is more unifying.”Will be a hard sell. Will anyone believe he's interested in unifying the nation unless that means agreeing with him. |
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Post by villagepub on Jul 15, 2024 15:50:00 GMT -6
Ok, which one of you is leaking my thoughts to the Trump campaign. Trump explained that before Saturday night, he had finished the speech he planned to give later this week at the Republican convention. “I basically had a speech that was an unbelievable rip-roarer,” he said. “It was brutal — really good, really tough. [Last night] I threw it out. I think it would be very bad if I got up and started going wild about how horrible everybody is and how corrupt and crooked, even if it’s true. Had this not happened, we had a speech that was pretty well set that was extremely tough. Now, we have a speech that is more unifying.”Will be a hard sell. Will anyone believe he's interested in unifying the nation unless that means agreeing with him. Sounds awfully familiar. |
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Post by williamtsherman on Jul 19, 2024 11:13:28 GMT -6
linkIf you haven't looked at the betting odds trends, you should. The Harris odds vs. Biden odds trend is absolutely fascinating. Look at the one month view. It's Joe. it's Kamala, it's Joe, it's Kamala... Just incredible. I'm very risk averse, so there is absolutely no way I'm entering that betting market.
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