|
Post by IU_ND_BSU_FAN on Sept 26, 2018 9:58:18 GMT -6
MARK MY WORDS!! The Big Ten, and maybe some other P5 conferences, will start to pay their athletes.
I don't think we're talking huge amounts of money, but rather a $10k or so stipend for every athlete in every sport. There is NO WAY that the MAC schools will be able to afford this and I think the conference will have to decide if it can compete at the highest levels.
Also...look at facilities!!! TSIB is not good at football and their facilities blow every school in the MAC away. Let's face it...there are many high school stadiums nicer than the Scheu!
|
|
|
Post by 00hmh on Sept 26, 2018 10:35:48 GMT -6
MARK MY WORDS!! The Big Ten, and maybe some other P5 conferences, will start to pay their athletes. I don't think we're talking huge amounts of money, but rather a $10k or so stipend for every athlete in every sport. There is NO WAY that the MAC schools will be able to afford this and I think the conference will have to decide if it can compete at the highest levels. Also...look at facilities!!! TSIB is not good at football and their facilities blow every school in the MAC away. Let's face it...there are many high school stadiums nicer than the Scheu! The scenario I might suggest is that the NCAA schools stand up and insist the NFL provide "scholarship" or subsidy to the colleges to run their farm system. That is freebie now in player development where the colleges actually subsidize the NFL. Not just with all the development cost but with the creation of "stars" in college who come into the NFL with a following.
There is mutual benefit and other cooperation between the NFL and NCAA, with the NFL and NCAA tacitly agreeing to not counter program games on Saturday afternoon (historically the original reason because college football was so popular and the pros relegated to Sunday, and heaven,nobody played weeknights...), and also I suppose cooperation restricting competition signing players early and competing for HS talent with a development minor league.
The NCAA is controlled by the big D1 schools. If the NCAA was to upset this apple cart, there is a question whether they would choose to use such a subsidy to level out the playing field a bit or not. There is no doubt the P5 has the leverage here and could just leave the NCAA.
The "real" FBS schools probably can't quite ditch the NCAA completely because of other sports, so maybe they have incentive, IF there is such an influx of money into NCAA coffers to imagine MAC continuing to nominally play FSB and get some small share of the loot.
|
|
|
Post by chirpchirpcards on Sept 26, 2018 15:21:25 GMT -6
I believe the next big shift in college athletics is rumored to come between 2020 and 2022 (I don't remember the exact year). That's when a lot of the P5 TV deals are up, and that is what drove realignment last time. All these conferences were scrambling for new/more markets before negotiating their current TV deals. The prevailing theory is that, along with more realignment, there is the potential for the P5 to come together and make some pretty hefty demands of the NCAA, with the understanding that, if unmet, the P5 will simply break away.
A lot can happen in 2-4 years, and I'm not "predicting" that any of this actually comes true, just some of the things I've heard over the last couple of years.
|
|
|
Post by redbirdman on Sept 26, 2018 16:54:02 GMT -6
The biggest surprise would be all the schools in P5 agreeing to do anything including paying the athletes or even agreeing to split with the NCAA. The member schools all have different agendas now & will in the future. The difference between Washington State athletics & Ohio State's will still be huge. The real thinking for years has been the top national schools breaking completely away from their conferences to create a Super Conference or division with probably a max of 32 schools similar to the NFL/NBA. Such a conference would be able to play for a clear national title & command greater money for their product. Will it happen?
|
|
|
Post by 00hmh on Sept 26, 2018 19:02:53 GMT -6
I think conferences might have a little restructuring, but the P5 conferences will remain, they need weak sisters. How can they otherwise have the real powers all be winners if they didn't? Will be happy to share the profits in conference.
And they still need their conferences for other sports.
|
|
|
Post by bsu0 on Sept 27, 2018 8:13:11 GMT -6
''The love of money is the root of all evil''
|
|
|
Post by williamtsherman on Sept 27, 2018 11:55:48 GMT -6
I take an I'll-believe-it-when-I -see-it approach to this whole question. There's been talk of significant change for a long time, but nothing much has happened.
Big money programs - few in number, well-organized with enormous funds and legal help at their disposal. Currently raking in scads and scads of money. No more anxious to give up their money than anyone else in the world.
"Mid-Major" football programs - few in number and fairly well organized. Losing tens of millions every year, but are able to tap into students' and tax-payers' pockets to cover the losses.
Players - young, inexperienced and poorly connected as a group. Huge year to year turnover.
Students and taxpayers - huge group but no organization whatsoever. Footing the bill for Mid-Major football but are largely unaware of the fact.
Where is the change going to come from? Things are currently set up to the benefit of the most well-organized and well-funded entities. situations like that tend to persist.
|
|
|
Post by CallingBS on Sept 29, 2018 11:23:19 GMT -6
The MAC needs to just drop to FCS and get it over with. It WILL happen in the next decade. In fact, it will likely be worse than just dropping to FCS. Here's the important question that the MAC office and MAC school presidents keep missing: Would you rather be proactive, or blindly follow your pipe dream (burning extremely valuable resources for decades in the process) until the decision is forced on you?
|
|
|
Post by rmcalhoun on Sept 29, 2018 19:13:58 GMT -6
I can assure the MAC higher ups will fight till the bitter end. They might be delusional but the MAC is committed to the long haul.
|
|
|
Post by williamtsherman on Oct 1, 2018 12:07:27 GMT -6
Of course they will. It would be a serious blow to the their personal prestige if their programs got shunted down to some lower level. What motivation do they have to see things change?
A couple other points:
1) I don't see that paying the players would decisively affect the MAC programs. They are already blowing through about $10 million of student and taxpayer money per year to keep their programs afloat. Why would they balk at blowing through, say, $12.5million? They are already losing a ridiculous amount of money...so what if it's a bit more ridiculous? People don't generally object to spending other people's money. In fact, the more of it you spend, the more perks usually come your way, as any politician can tell you.
2) the power school administrators and the mid-major school administrators are the same group of people....the same tribe. And there is a lot of mobility between the two groups. There is a certain amount of revenue leakage from the power programs to mid-major programs, but it is a rather small percentage of the whole. I don't think the power school people will be anxious to screw their mid-major brethren.
|
|
|
Post by bsu0 on Oct 1, 2018 13:35:31 GMT -6
You do not see the Power 5 schools stay greedy and give $ to us? The royals in the castle giving the great unwashed meat. ''Let them eat cake''
|
|
|
Post by 00hmh on Oct 1, 2018 14:18:14 GMT -6
Of course they will. It would be a serious blow to the their personal prestige if their programs got shunted down to some lower level. What motivation do they have to see things change?
A couple other points:
1) I don't see that paying the players would decisively affect the MAC programs. They are already blowing through about $10 million of student and taxpayer money per year to keep their programs afloat. Why would they balk at blowing through, say, $12.5million? They are already losing a ridiculous amount of money...so what if it's a bit more ridiculous? People don't generally object to spending other people's money. In fact, the more of it you spend, the more perks usually come your way, as any politician can tell you.
2) the power school administrators and the mid-major school administrators are the same group of people....the same tribe. And there is a lot of mobility between the two groups. There is a certain amount of revenue leakage from the power programs to mid-major programs, but it is a rather small percentage of the whole. I don't think the power school people will be anxious to screw their mid-major brethren. That may give too big a weight to the interests of the administrators. And I don't see that much self interest served by subsidizing mid major sports. And I disagree strongly that they can find another $12.5 mil so easily as you assume.
Even assuming good will by university administration for the most part, they are now so heavily influenced by the economics of sports as funding gets tight at mid majors, I can't see the brotherhood of administrators going against the greed of the P5 administrators. The P5 is different in this respect from mid majors. They have funding from gate revenue, established TV contracts, and donors which in almost all cases are all in a different league than mid majors.
The economics are now making sports for high D1 a place where there is money available to pad administrator preferences, but the lure of even more money by refusing to subsidize mid major football at all has to be a bigger factor than any brotherhood (or sisterhood) among the administrative tribe.
I don't think they want to screw mid majors, but I sure don't think they care very much, or have any big economic incentive to subsidize them.
They do need mid majors and bottom feeding conference members to fill out schedules and to serve other sports, that is true. And how can you always have a great winning record at any power school without some patsies. A super conference with all good teams would mean a lot of "mediocre" .500 programs. That is no way to get big crowds or market TV.
So I partly agree with you, but think mid major football is ultimately screwed. Too expensive and they just don't have revenue as state support shrinks for other programs. There is less and less available to siphon off to pay for staff and facilities you claim are multipurpose. And harder and harder to justify student fees to subsidize sports where the students have less and less interest in the "entertainment."
The MAC will delay acting since they are scared to take a controversial act, but when the money runs out what can they do?
|
|
|
Post by 00hmh on Oct 1, 2018 14:18:47 GMT -6
General, credit to you , it is perceptive to recognize here what is called an agency problem in economics and finance.
You can also call it a conflict of interest. A big corporation is supposedly accountable to shareholders, but the Board of Directors are really not very representative directly, and the actual management controls information and communication with the shareholders and the Board and effectively often controls the mechanism intended to control them. Government steps in to investigate some abuses of power, but even in the private sector you have a big agency problem.
In Universities, there are even fewer controls. Politicians, maybe...but who can trust that. In the University there are no shareholders to control them. And even in the private schools, to whom does management answer?
Still, obviously they do have to pay the bills and answer to funding sources which includes their customers. The trouble is, you make a good point, that students and parents have little voice.
Tremendous incentives to do what is best for management. Until the money runs out...
|
|
|
Post by universityjim on Oct 1, 2018 16:07:04 GMT -6
And if this should all come to pass as some have predicted it will create a whole new set of haves and have not's among the existing power five schools.
The difference between the truly elite and those who ride along on their coat tails is bigger than the difference between those dwelling at the bottom of the power five and your average gang of five school. Do those schools at the bottom of the Power 5 really deserve the share of the revenue they currently get? Do you think the ones at the top are totally happy about it?
|
|
|
Post by 00hmh on Oct 1, 2018 17:19:36 GMT -6
That strong conference branding gives them value no mid major has.
|
|