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Post by 00hmh on Jul 23, 2019 15:24:07 GMT -6
The economy is not friendly to those who aren't educated and those with education adapt to change and can be retrained more easily. I feel pretty safe in saying that the economy will likely be much friendlier to plumbers and electricians than it will be to a decent number of BSU graduates. And that the careers of the folks in those trades will be much more stable during their working years. True. Good chance many should not go to college. The investment is often a marginal one. A decent number will not be better. But then some of them would be damned poor plumbers or electricians, if they could get work, not THAT many jobs for plumbers and electricians.
That does not mean education is not good public policy. Most are better off, and well educated workforce (and electorate) is good policy.
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Post by 00hmh on Jul 23, 2019 15:35:37 GMT -6
Diversity at the University gives the average student better ability to understand, to communicate and collaborate with a diverse population, something no one can avoid. Which is why I asked for something measurable, instead of touchy-feely speculation. Not speculation. Teamwork, good communication skills, and living in a diverse world are employment requirements. The more diverse the world is the more valuable. Talk to anyone in placement, anyone in the business school, or for that matter in liberal arts, if you don't think lacking those things hurts.
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Post by cardrock on Jul 23, 2019 19:24:26 GMT -6
Ok, I think I have two cents around here somewhere. 1) I did college, military & then ended up pursuing licensing & work in the electrical field. In 2001 when turning out of the electrical school it was said that in 10-15 years there will be a shortage of tradesmen (plumbers, electricians & mechanical). That has been absolutely the case for most of the country. Most areas tend to have a decent wage rate and as of late a large increase in available work. Since holding a masters license I have owned my own company, work on multiple continents and many parts of the US. I recommend to the youngsters to understand that they will change career fields possibly multiple times by the time they figure out what they want to do. Key things to learn is personal money management and not get frustrated with climbing any ladder they choose to climb. 2) Second, by chance today I caught a discussion on the radio about diversity. In truth I realized I viewed the concept much as everyone else. The example given was how Harvard has become “more diversified”; the host proposed by welcoming a “diverse” student freshman (black, Asian, middle USA, etc) it is allowing students to be become exposed to different backgrounds. That’s how I previously perceived diversity. The interviewee countered with the any students Harvard is admitting is typically coming from the same neighborhood, same background that everyone else that’s being admitted. The black student isn’t necessarily coming from the south side of Chicago, he’s coming from the North side, the more affluent, son of a doctor side. Basically they’re promoting this as racial diversity when actually it’s the same student, just a different color. The host danced to focus on his racial point, but the interviewee was very direct & established that “diversity” has to be defined, distinct and not solely based on or stop at color. I enjoyed opening my mind to a variation of thought. I believe truthfully there’s merit in both points, but I do think that possibly we need to realize what it is we’re actually saying verses what’s actually happening, need to be truthful in our observations.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 23, 2019 23:44:20 GMT -6
Trying to be positive but am having a hard time. And before anyone jumps down my throat for being negative about Mike Neu as the coach (like the last time), help me see it differently. What am I missing that you see to be positive (if you are)? Pardon me for bringing the thread back to its genesis, however, I also find it difficult to be positive about Neu as a head coach. Considering his results thus far it would seem that experience as an Arena Football HC and NFL QB coach do not necessarily translate as qualifications for being a successful DI HC. Nor do these disqualify, but thus far the results are not promising.
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Post by Lurkin McGurkin on Jul 24, 2019 6:39:59 GMT -6
Which is why I asked for something measurable, instead of touchy-feely speculation. Not speculation. Teamwork, good communication skills, and living in a diverse world are employment requirements. The more diverse the world is the more valuable. Talk to anyone in placement, anyone in the business school, or for that matter in liberal arts, if you don't think lacking those things hurts.
I have never seen "must live in a diverse world" on any job description I've ever seen. And I've seen a lot of them. Again, you've supplied nothing measurable, just speculation.
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Post by 00hmh on Jul 24, 2019 8:45:08 GMT -6
Not speculation. Teamwork, good communication skills, and living in a diverse world are employment requirements. The more diverse the world is the more valuable. Talk to anyone in placement, anyone in the business school, or for that matter in liberal arts, if you don't think lacking those things hurts.
I have never seen "must live in a diverse world" on any job description I've ever seen. And I've seen a lot of them. Of course not. It goes without saying.
Do you really expect any job not to involve working with women, racial and ethnic minorities and people with distinctly different cultures? Your peers and work group, often now your superiors, those you supervise, as well of course your client, customers and suppliers include women and minorities, foreign entities.
Do you really think leaving BSU without experience in a diverse environment is optimal?
Teamwork and communication with others certainly is not a rare element required on the job. Once that team might have been mostly white men. Corporate, banking, and business interaction mostly white men. Even in retail many big ticket decisions the province of the man of the house. That has changed over our lifetime.
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Post by 00hmh on Jul 24, 2019 9:05:19 GMT -6
Not speculation. Teamwork, good communication skills, and living in a diverse world are employment requirements. The more diverse the world is the more valuable. Talk to anyone in placement, anyone in the business school, or for that matter in liberal arts, if you don't think lacking those things hurts.
I have never seen "must live in a diverse world" on any job description I've ever seen. And I've seen a lot of them. It also occurs to me that may reflect hiring practices you have seen over time. That is rapidly changing in response to demographic change in the workplace and in the applicant pool. We have to change with that change in what employers want.
Employers now recognize the issue of wanting to recruit the best talent, do not, cannot, ignore talent that is not white and male. More than that they recognize the value of diversity and the fact their customers, clients, suppliers, and so on are going to be diverse. That becomes part of hiring goals. NOT just to meet legal requirements, it is a matter of necessity in a diverse world.
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Post by 00hmh on Jul 24, 2019 9:33:17 GMT -6
Why should BSU emphasize diversity? I made the case above that every student needs experience in a diverse environment to succeed. That's reason enough. There is more though. Providing diverse environment is necessary to get the best talent which will include diverse elements and to train those diverse students when we are successful recruiting them. If we want to be excellent we go after talent regardless of gender, race, cultural background that is diverse, and then train them well. So we need the diverse student to provide our customer, the employer what they need. So we get the talent we have to work with it. We have to try to get the most our each student. It's good for all students but the evidence for underrepresented students is we need diverse faculty as mentors, we need to recruit women, good foreign students, and other minorities in the student body as part of their peer group. It is not about eliminating outright prejudice. It's to communicate, and to create a comfort level for best learning. Without that underrepresented students are especially alienated. Where this discussion started was about attracting MORE students, with an emphasis on generating revenue.
We do that with high quality and getting jobs for students who graduate. We ultimately fail if we don't do that. The University is not just being noble about diversity, it is probably a necessity.
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Post by Lurkin McGurkin on Jul 24, 2019 10:11:30 GMT -6
I have never seen "must live in a diverse world" on any job description I've ever seen. And I've seen a lot of them. It also occurs to me that may reflect hiring practices you have seen over time. That is rapidly changing in response to demographic change in the workplace and in the applicant pool. We have to change with that change in what employers want.
Employers now recognize the issue of wanting to recruit the best talent, do not, cannot, ignore talent that is not white and male. More than that they recognize the value of diversity and the fact their customers, clients, suppliers, and so on are going to be diverse. That becomes part of hiring goals. NOT just to meet legal requirements, it is a matter of necessity in a diverse world. Looking for the best talent, regardless of race, religion, gender, etc., is not the same as diversity. The diversity YOU'RE talking about used to be called affirmative action. How many female plumbers have you seen? Electricians? Construction workers? Some careers attract men, some attract women. I could make the argument that our men's basketball team doesn't have enough white guys on it, based on demographics. Does that mean it's not diverse? It always seems like people who champion "diversity" only mean it when there are "too many white guys." Never when there's not enough.
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Post by 00hmh on Jul 24, 2019 11:26:16 GMT -6
Diversity is reality.
What works best in business or society will make that a factor in decision making. Can't ignore it. More emphasis on diversity works.
If the world was so to speak plain vanilla, or even say plain carmel, that would not be necessary.
Affirmative action was more a remedy for structural prejudice. That was very severe not long ago. Not so much today.
Giving value to diversity is different, but I agree is an outgrowth or descendant of affirmative action. But.
Much more a case that it addresses or "remedies" neglect of something we now need more because the world has changed and education has to change in response.
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Post by 00hmh on Jul 24, 2019 11:35:50 GMT -6
It also occurs to me that may reflect hiring practices you have seen over time. That is rapidly changing in response... The diversity YOU'RE talking about used to be called affirmative action...It always seems like people who champion "diversity" .... I don't see business crying out they need white guys yet. No shortage of white candidates. That point about gender differences in employment preference per your example may well have to do with whether the underrepresented class has been welcome, something explained by society being different in the past. Not necessarily malign prejudice or any difference in talent. Why preserve that past norm? Once, business executives were mostly or all white men. Some good reason to do that now?
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Post by Deleted on Jul 24, 2019 12:58:38 GMT -6
Trying to be positive but am having a hard time. And before anyone jumps down my throat for being negative about Mike Neu as the coach (like the last time), help me see it differently. What am I missing that you see to be positive (if you are)? Pardon me for bringing the thread back to its genesis, however, I also find it difficult to be positive about Neu as a head coach. Considering his results thus far it would seem that experience as an Arena Football HC and NFL QB coach do not necessarily translate as qualifications for being a successful DI HC. Nor do these disqualify, but thus far the results are not promising. Here. Genesis. OK, let’s start again
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Post by 00hmh on Jul 24, 2019 13:11:25 GMT -6
Yeah, but back to that topic is more depressing than affirmative action issues in terms of ultimate success...
I think Alan has it right.
A success requires experience creating a college staff and recruiting, not just X&O knowledge.
OJT does not work. Neu now after experiment, trial and clear errors, may be qualified. Probably too late.
It's not just that lack of success is a disadvantage at BSU. The other issue is whether we can build a strong staff on a low budget. Lembo brought one, couldn't keep it.
And then there is the elephant in the room whether any mid major in the MAC or below has much of a chance to have real success.
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Post by Lurkin McGurkin on Jul 24, 2019 13:52:19 GMT -6
Pardon me for bringing the thread back to its genesis, however, I also find it difficult to be positive about Neu as a head coach. Considering his results thus far it would seem that experience as an Arena Football HC and NFL QB coach do not necessarily translate as qualifications for being a successful DI HC. Nor do these disqualify, but thus far the results are not promising. Here. Genesis. OK, let’s start again Genesis? More like an Exodus...
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Post by JacksonStreetElite on Jul 24, 2019 18:58:51 GMT -6
I can forgive a lot of things, but rerailing a derailed thread is not one of them.
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