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Post by cardfan on Feb 24, 2020 15:30:48 GMT -6
However you want to spin it, the mediocre, around .500 records, with every west team with 10 plus losses and 9 of the 12 MAC teams overall having 10 or more loses, its widespread mediocre in a middling conference. And that’s With games left to be played plus the conf tourney. The lack of good coaches is the MAC is obvious.
If most of the teams in a middling conference are mediocre that ain’t saying much.
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Post by rmcalhoun on Feb 24, 2020 15:33:57 GMT -6
What did I do? what did i defend?
I was impressed with what you said there and what General said above about his old friends who show up at games, it is about how we are connected to BSU sports through people and interaction. Not just the results, although we all want that.
You may make tarheel a liar, he opined you were lucid when writing the post.
Oh yea my sentimental post.. I do feel that way though of course winning would be more fun
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Post by williamtsherman on Feb 24, 2020 15:40:44 GMT -6
I remember very well the tension as Miami had what could have been the last possession, with us up 1 or 2. And then the Jeermal steal and lay-up to ice the game was maybe the most thrilling non-tourney BSU play I witnessed. We really lost a lot through the administration's agendas and stupidities and low expectations. I was about 15 rows up, directly above where Jeermal was exulting after that play.
What a fun rivalry we had with Miami. I would be nervous all day before any Miami game. Who is our rival now? That's a joke question of course. No opponent takes enough notice of us to be a rival....why would they? And there is no particular team that stands in our way of anything worthwhile....our own general failure does that.
It's because I can remember games like this that I have nothing but disgust and scorn for excuse-makers, mediocrity fetishists, under-performing coaches and low expectation moguls
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Post by 00hmh on Feb 24, 2020 15:53:26 GMT -6
However you want to spin it, the mediocre, around .500 records, with every west team with 10 plus losses and 9 of the 12 MAC teams overall having 10 or more loses, its widespread mediocre in a middling conference. And that’s With games left to be played plus the conf tourney. The lack of good coaches is the MAC is obvious. If most of the teams in a middling conference are mediocre that ain’t saying much. Two thoughts.
One is that the only obvious thing about mid major basketball is that whether it's a good coach or exceptional player who ends up there they can make a difference.
And second you may be missing. In a competitive tough league it may take pretty good coaches to get to the middle of that league.
And the what follows is the question whether the results this year show it is a total lack of good coaches which you say, or a lot of equal coaches. Could be stronger than you think, but none of whom are the kind of difference maker you sometimes see.
Rarely have had the conference have more than 3, maybe 4 coaches who are so good they can take a basically equal team and win with it. The best of those do move on. (Majerus for example) A few stay for longer periods, rarely the very best, maybe very good though and a good fit (Hunsaker was like that, or Charley Cole at Miami). They can stay around for a while, if long enough a program is built.
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Post by david75bsu on Feb 24, 2020 16:15:22 GMT -6
Honestly, I don’t give a damn about any basketball but Ball State and to a lesser degree the Indiana Pacers. I don’t care about Big Ten and difficult to even get into the Irish and I only live thirty minutes from their campus - and they don’t charge for parking or make you park a mile away. Say what you may, for the most part I enjoy Ball State basketball, just wish they could get close to the glory days or at least be a consistent top 100 team.
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Post by thebsukid on Feb 24, 2020 16:26:06 GMT -6
It's not over but I do not expect to see KJ, so Acree, Hazen, and Josh will all need to step it up the rest of the way!
If Mallers will become more aggressive offensively and Teague will be the stud he's been most of the season we can beat anyone in the MAC on a neutral floor!
But, the bottom line is do we really WANT IT?
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Post by CallingBS on Feb 24, 2020 17:45:50 GMT -6
I don’t care what the numbers say, my eyes tell me the MAC is not good this year. Lots of poor fundamentals and inability to put the ball in the hoop. some really ugly basketball. Winning a division with like 8 losses doesn’t scream quality to me. Parity just means all the East teams are similarly mediocre. Niu might win the division solely because of one player. Yuck. I have been impressed with BG. WIth Turner they have the kind of guard play you want. It’s hard to project the MAC champ being anything but 1 and done and I’m not sure we’ll get any teams in the NIT. But, we will see. ^ This is the truth. Regardless of skewed power ratings based on losses in the preseason to P5's, the league is as bad as I can ever remember. Last year was an anomaly because of Buffalo. As you say, parity should not be confused with quality (nor should "competitiveness").
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Post by lmills72 on Feb 24, 2020 19:19:19 GMT -6
Mediocrity not only describes the league, it is embraced by the league, particularly the MAC West.
Look at the six coaches in the West. Whitford is the baby at 7 years of experience (West coaches average 10 years on the job), yet nobody has a winning percentage over 53-54%. Only Hawkins has ever won a championship.
In the past 10 years, WMU is the only West team to have won a MAC title (only 3 West teams have won since BSU won in 2000 - WMU twice) but the standard is so low nobody cares enough to fire a coach or apparently even try to get better. West schools are just comfortable with mediocrity.
One the other hand, East coaches average 3 years the job. Part of that low number comes from winning, as victorious coaches move on to better jobs (5 of the six East schools have won the MAC title since 2000), but even Bowling Green (the only East team not to win the title in that time) has had 3 coaches in the past decade. You could at least argue they're trying.
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Post by cardfan on Feb 24, 2020 19:26:10 GMT -6
Mediocrity not only describes the league, it is embraced by the league, particularly the MAC West. Look at the six coaches in the West. Whitford is the baby at 7 years of experience (West coaches average 10 years on the job), yet nobody has a winning percentage over 53-54%. Only Hawkins has ever won a championship. In the past 10 years, WMU is the only West team to have won a MAC title (only 3 West teams have won since BSU won in 2000 - WMU twice) but the standard is so low nobody cares enough to fire a coach or apparently even try to get better. West schools are just comfortable with mediocrity. One the other hand, East coaches average 3 years the job. Part of that low number comes from winning, as victorious coaches move on to better jobs (5 of the six East schools have won the MAC title since 2000), but even Bowling Green (the only East team not to win the title in that time) has had 3 coaches in the past decade. You could at least argue they're trying. Exactly.
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Post by realitycheck on Feb 24, 2020 20:36:56 GMT -6
Mediocrity not only describes the league, it is embraced by the league, particularly the MAC West. Look at the six coaches in the West. Whitford is the baby at 7 years of experience (West coaches average 10 years on the job), yet nobody has a winning percentage over 53-54%. Only Hawkins has ever won a championship. In the past 10 years, WMU is the only West team to have won a MAC title (only 3 West teams have won since BSU won in 2000 - WMU twice) but the standard is so low nobody cares enough to fire a coach or apparently even try to get better. West schools are just comfortable with mediocrity. One the other hand, East coaches average 3 years the job. Part of that low number comes from winning, as victorious coaches move on to better jobs (5 of the six East schools have won the MAC title since 2000), but even Bowling Green (the only East team not to win the title in that time) has had 3 coaches in the past decade. You could at least argue they're trying. Mills, Mills, Mills...this is no time to bring facts into the discussion. Have you not been convinced that we have way too many obstacles to overcome that apparently none of the other MAC schools have? We can’t possibly hope for more so it’s better to just sit back and enjoy the competitive ride. We can’t find or afford a better coach. We have funding issues. The Thompson thing. The first two years of Whit didn’t really count. Oh, and the injuries and unforeseen suspensions. Plus, our expectations are too high. And our glory years didn’t really happen or weren’t as good as we think they were. And darn it our fans shouldn’t be so negative and should give more credit for the recruits we do have. And our scheme and system are agnostic to positions so we don’t need big men. And the big men we have need time to develop. Darn I’m thinking I’m forgetting some more reasons why we can’t possibly expect more. Someone help me out.
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Post by 00hmh on Feb 24, 2020 20:46:38 GMT -6
I believe the argument here has with mathematical precision proved that the East is better than mediocre. And that the East is better than the West. And the same evidence seems to say the West is smack in the middle of all conferences with all but one team this year about average, one near the bottom 1/3 and a couple above average including BSU.
This is all true, but does it not also mean the MAC is not an AWFUL conference.
Thanks to all for helping me make my point above.
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Post by lmills72 on Feb 24, 2020 21:13:33 GMT -6
Mild, Mill, Mills...this is no time to bring facts into the discussion. Have you not been convinced that we have way too many obstacles to overcome that apparently none of the other MAC schools have? We can’t possibly hope for more so it’s better to just sit back and enjoy the competitive ride. We can’t find or afford a better coach. We have funding issues. The Thompson thing. The first two years of Whit didn’t really count. Oh, and the injuries and unforeseen suspensions. Plus, our expectations are too high. And our glory years didn’t really happen or weren’t as good as we think they were. And darn it our fans shouldn’t be so negative and should give more credit for the recruits we do have. And our scheme and system are agnostic to positions so we don’t need big men. And the big men we have need time to develop. Darn I’m thinking I’m forgetting some more reasons why we can’t possibly expect more. Someone help me out. Well you kinda touched on it with the injuries, but you know it was the lack of depth created by the injuries that forced our starters to play 30.1 minutes a game during the conference season last year. As all know, college kids can't sustain that much court time for that long, thus our 11th place finish last year. I feel much better about our improved depth this year which has allowed our starters (including our 2 freshmen) to only have to play an average of 30.5 minutes a game during MAC play, clearly setting us up for future success.
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Post by redbirdman on Feb 24, 2020 22:13:05 GMT -6
If you check the league's attendance the programs at NIU, EMU & WMU are not drawing anyone & their blogs show the fan bases want coaches fired. But the problem is they can't afford to. CMU's blog shows lots of people are upset with Davis & Toledo's blog feels Tod Kowalczyk has done as much as he is capable of. Toledo's attendance is likely to drop a lot next yr based on fans irritation with his work this MAC season. So conclusion is every MAC West blog would be happy next yr to have a new coach. I will be surprised if 2 of the 6 are gone.
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Post by redbirdman on Feb 24, 2020 22:19:10 GMT -6
Toledo's situation this MAC season is very similar to what we had last yr. Last I heard 4 of their starters were in top 7 in entire league in minutes played. They have no bench because of players quitting & getting hurt.
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Post by lmills72 on Feb 24, 2020 22:21:25 GMT -6
If you check the league's attendance the programs at NIU, EMU & WMU are not drawing anyone & their blogs show the fan bases want coaches fired. But the problem is they can't afford to. CMU's blog shows lots of people are upset with Davis & Toledo's blog feels Tod Kowalczyk has done as much as he is capable of. Toledo's attendance is likely to drop a lot next yr based on fans irritation with his work this MAC season. So conclusion is every MAC West blog would be happy next yr to have a new coach. I will be surprised if 2 of the 6 are gone. Every MAC West school fanbase with a heartbeat should want their coach fired.
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