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Post by cardfan on Feb 25, 2020 4:12:10 GMT -6
If you check the league's attendance the programs at NIU, EMU & WMU are not drawing anyone & their blogs show the fan bases want coaches fired. But the problem is they can't afford to. CMU's blog shows lots of people are upset with Davis & Toledo's blog feels Tod Kowalczyk has done as much as he is capable of. Toledo's attendance is likely to drop a lot next yr based on fans irritation with his work this MAC season. So conclusion is every MAC West blog would be happy next yr to have a new coach. I will be surprised if 2 of the 6 are gone. Every MAC West school fanbase with a heartbeat should want their coach fired. But football! I love college football. Love our Cards. But I think we can now see the effects in heavily investing in football on the basketball programs as budgets become tighter at state schools. Can’t afford to fire coaches/upgrade basketball programs, which would be cheaper.
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Post by williamtsherman on Feb 25, 2020 6:59:15 GMT -6
If you check the league's attendance the programs at NIU, EMU & WMU are not drawing anyone & their blogs show the fan bases want coaches fired. But the problem is they can't afford to. CMU's blog shows lots of people are upset with Davis & Toledo's blog feels Tod Kowalczyk has done as much as he is capable of. Toledo's attendance is likely to drop a lot next yr based on fans irritation with his work this MAC season. So conclusion is every MAC West blog would be happy next yr to have a new coach. I will be surprised if 2 of the 6 are gone. Seems like a systematic issue to me. BSU has, I believe, had to buy out their last three coaches also. (Although the Thompson case was unique) I guess we could continue with this coach hire concept that repeatedly leads to expensive failure here and elsewhere. And then let's be sure to extend mediocre coaches because otherwise they couldn't recruit, you know. Apparently the only way they can convince recruits they won't soon be fired is to make it financially impossible for the school to do so. Or maybe...I know this is crazy talk...we could seek a pool of coaching candidates who crave an OPPORTUNITY, rather than a lengthy contract that protects them against their own failure. Personally, I'm really tired of coaches being protected against their own failure.
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Post by realitycheck on Feb 25, 2020 12:23:57 GMT -6
Fine, Sherm! You know what I'm tired of? I'll tell ya! I'm sick and tired of all of this focus on winning a title or tournament games or striving for more or those damn lofty expectations. These are things we simply cannot achieve! Who can say for sure we even went to the NCAA tourney or won the conference or recruited stud players? I think we're all just fantasizing those things actually happened or if they did they probably weren't as exciting or cool as we remember.
We now have 20 years of a new tradition. Safe, steady, empathetic (notice it has pathetic in there!), middle-of-the-road, friendly and wholesome athletics. Doesn't that just feeeel good? It's high time we just settle into our seats at the W or the Scheu and relax. Comfortably numb sounds right about now.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 25, 2020 12:36:21 GMT -6
Fine, Sherm! You know what I'm tired of? I'll tell ya! I'm sick and tired of all of this focus on winning a title or tournament games or striving for more or those damn lofty expectations. These are things we simply cannot achieve! Who can say for sure we even went to the NCAA tourney or won the conference or recruited stud players? I think we're all just fantasizing those things actually happened or if they did they probably weren't as exciting or cool as we remember. We now have 20 years of a new tradition. Safe, steady, empathetic (notice it has pathetic in there!), middle-of-the-road, friendly and wholesome athletics. Doesn't that just feeeel good? It's high time we just settle into our seats at the W or the Scheu and relax. Comfortably numb sounds right about now. RC must have stumbled upon one of the AD building dumpsters and found the last board meeting PowerPoint presentations.
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Post by 00hmh on Feb 25, 2020 12:51:59 GMT -6
If you check the league's attendance the programs at NIU, EMU & WMU are not drawing anyone & their blogs show the fan bases want coaches fired. But the problem is they can't afford to. CMU's blog shows lots of people are upset with Davis & Toledo's blog feels Tod Kowalczyk has done as much as he is capable of. Toledo's attendance is likely to drop a lot next yr based on fans irritation with his work this MAC season. So conclusion is every MAC West blog would be happy next yr to have a new coach. I will be surprised if 2 of the 6 are gone. Seems like a systematic issue to me. The only systematic issue has been financial difficulty caused by bad decisions. That we have dealt with them but failed to achieve high quality actually is the part that makes sense. Especially since demographic and economic issues have in some cases been out of anyone's control.
The decision making leading to the difficulty has not been systematic at all. It's been bonehead mistake all too often. So a decision to hire Ronnie, clear mistake. The decision to hire a mediocre coach to survive the consequences understandable. Too different things. Neither makes me happy but at least I understand the second.
This forum favors evil intent by our administration way too much. When faced with two explanations for bad decisions, one requiring a clever evil plot and the other bonehead mistake, I always go for the latter.
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Post by cardfan on Feb 25, 2020 12:57:10 GMT -6
Look at the AD’s and presidents involved in the boneheadedness. (I include worthen and Purvis for completely caving and firing Hunsaker.)
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Post by redbirdman on Feb 25, 2020 13:10:56 GMT -6
You seldom win on the cheap but that is how BSU is forced to play. I agree that in basketball we still have fan support nearly at the top in the conference. But the league is falling & will continue to do so as the midwest schools decline in enrollment & cities with the schools get smaller & poorer. The future of the MAC looking better nationally is not going to occur. I don't see any of the schools even being attractive to another league with a higher profile. We should be able to attract a coach who can win in basketball. Even Taylor & Whitford have won th Division. Football will be very hard to do.
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Post by rmcalhoun on Feb 25, 2020 13:20:30 GMT -6
Every MAC West school fanbase with a heartbeat should want their coach fired. But football! I love college football. Love our Cards. But I think we can now see the effects in heavily investing in football on the basketball programs as budgets become tighter at state schools. Can’t afford to fire coaches/upgrade basketball programs, which would be cheaper. You all know my feelings.. I say we cut basketball and give the money to football lol
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Post by williamtsherman on Feb 25, 2020 13:28:03 GMT -6
Seems like a systematic issue to me. The only systematic issue has been financial difficulty caused by bad decisions.
The decision making leading to the difficulty has not been systematic at all. It's been bonehead mistake all too often.
Wrong. The system of hiring coaches that we have used (and apparently the other MAC west schools use also) is just begging for financial difficulties. It's very much a systemic problem...that's why there has been such consistent, repetitive failure.
It's to be expected that coaching hires will go bad on you sometimes. Coaching hires are a crapshoot (especially when you have AD's who are not exactly the most competent). Why, then, do we use a system that requires spending as much as we possibly can AND locking ourselves in for multiple years? Why are we trying to outbid all competitors for the same limited candidate pool, when we see that inclusion in that candidate poll is not a strong predictor of success anyway? Fishing in the same pool guarantees you will have to pay higher AND offer more secure, longer contracts....and it guarantees you nothing.
Instead, BSU should
1) create their own largely unique candidate pool using different criteria than the typical program. Accept a different type of experience, and systematically seek traits that suggest strong recruiting skill. 2) make it clear to candidates that their continued employment beyond two years will be based on their success (relative to reasonable, adjustable expectations) AND the quality of their recruiting to that point....NOT on a financial commitment that the school can't afford to get out of.
The kind of candidates that will be turned off by this challenge are not the kind you want anyway. If they don't believe themselves that they will succeed, how are they going to convince recruits that they will be? Of course the candidates from the standard hiring pool will not be interested because programs, such as the other bonehead MAC west schools, will all be pursuing them also and, offering idiotic long term contracts. So what? Let them. Where has that got them today?
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Post by rmcalhoun on Feb 25, 2020 13:48:59 GMT -6
Sherm I know you do not follow football closely but the staff recently did something like you are saying on the football side.
They recently "hired" a grad assistant that was/is an offensive coordinator at a fancy private Texas high school. He is young his brother is the running backs coach at I think BYU or something like that. His dad is a lifetime coach so he has a pedigree. So the staff is taking a chance on a young guy with what looks like some great upside and they are not paying him anything on the cash side. If he proves to be a good coach/GA Im sure he will move up quickly to a position coach.. Plus we get an in into hghschool football in TX.. Pretty outside the box thinking
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Post by williamtsherman on Feb 25, 2020 14:31:06 GMT -6
The high school level is pretty obviously the direction in which to expand the search pool. I mentioned the idea of Europe before, but that was just sort of a flyer. And I certainly wouldn't rule out candidates from the college level, but...
The standard, ordinary mid-major coaching search pool includes head coaches from a lower college level, or assistants from a higher level. There may be good candidates here, but they are so obvious that everyone can see them...thus you will have to outbid everyone to get one of the better ones. I'm not sure, but I've heard that BSU does not have an unlimited amount of money available. And, as we well know, choosing from this pool can get you a mediocrity, a loser, or even a total flaming disaster.
However, it does make our dumbass non-entity AD's feel better to do things the way everyone else does them...so there's that.
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Post by 00hmh on Feb 25, 2020 14:49:42 GMT -6
Sherm I know you do not follow football closely but the staff recently did something like you are saying on the football side. Pretty outside the box thinking Glad they didn't hire him as head coach. Which is Sherman's proposal. How do you think that would work?
But OK. It's just speculation . Fine for us to sit here and say let's do something so different. Of course an actual AD has a hard time doing something that could end their career when the long shot fails. Which by definition is the likely event.
On top of that, there is no evidence anywhere I see that there is this "candidate pool" out there. Or that we could define it and choose well from it. There is a good reason we and every other school is conventional and also a reason HC candidates want 5 year contracts.
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Post by rmcalhoun on Feb 25, 2020 15:12:33 GMT -6
It would not work at all especially on the football side but I am not going to throw Sherms plan completely aside because I think it has some merit. There are a ton of hungry bench coaches and established high school coaches from great high schools that would give there left testicle to sign a 2 year contract to prove themselves. If it fails move on try again. I mean we are in year whatever with Whit and we have nothing to show it for it. It could not really be any different
I have said many times if I were the AD and making a football higher.. I would be scanning the FCS ranks for a fiery go getter who recruited well and relates to players. The other option would be a solich type. Hiring from the normal pool of Dc and OC's is nit going to work here.. The good ones are going to leave asap or are already hired by P5 programs leaving us with guys no one really wants
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Post by williamtsherman on Feb 25, 2020 15:21:30 GMT -6
Sherm I know you do not follow football closely but the staff recently did something like you are saying on the football side. Pretty outside the box thinking Glad they didn't hire him as head coach. Which is Sherman's proposal. How do you think that would work?
But OK. It's just speculation . Fine for us to sit here and say let's do something so different. Of course an actual AD has a hard time doing something that could end their career when the long shot fails. Which by definition is the likely event.
On top of that, there is no evidence anywhere I see that there is this "candidate pool" out there. Or that we could define it and choose well from it. There is a good reason we and every other school is conventional and also a reason HC candidates want 5 year contracts.
Yes, the conventional approach is working so well for us, It would be crazy to try something new. A "long shot" would be nuts when we can get someone with a pedigree and the standard qualifications like Ronnie Thompson.
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Post by realitycheck on Feb 25, 2020 15:38:09 GMT -6
The factor that has consistently torpedoed us is incompetence on the part of those who do the hiring. Thompson was just awful and Gora should have been drummed out of town for that disaster. Instead I believe she is now considered an icon. Sandy's parting idiotic extension of Whitford which was heralded by certain equally idiotic posters on this board was also egregious. Left Goetz handcuffed. I'm not sure what the right strategy should be but I am certain it won't be much different than the past methodology. Higher Ed state-supported schools especially are not going to roll the dice on a high profile hire like this on anything other than a former coach, current assistant or lower-level college coach. Expecting anything else is a pipe dream and not worth the speculative energy, IMO.
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