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Post by JacksonStreetElite on Mar 28, 2020 13:23:51 GMT -6
we could be the pre season favorite I think this is where I always disconnect with you, kid. We value things differently. I could not care less if we are the pre-season favorite. I could not care less about speculation and prediction. I care about championships. Whit has 0 and hasn’t truly come close to one. If we were the 2 seed every year or we lost in the tournament final every year maybe I’d cut him some slack and say “well we have been really unlucky.” But I wont cut him any slack at all for “if things go well other people might think we might win it all in 5 months.”
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Post by williamtsherman on Mar 28, 2020 13:25:49 GMT -6
Ray's teams would destroy any of Taylor's or Whitford's teams. Heck, most of Buckley's teams would destroy Taylor's or Whitford's teams. 100% To be fair, there is some overlap between Whitford's and Ray's teams in that Ray's floor is basically Whitford's ceiling. Whitford's demonstrated ceiling is a high finish in an unformidable MAC west and maybe one tourney win. Ray's ceilings were championships with NBA caliber players. It makes quite a large difference when you can recruit.
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Post by lmills72 on Mar 28, 2020 13:39:33 GMT -6
Something that sounds like it can't be true, but yet IS true, is that BSU is the all-time most successful program in the MAC tourney. This despite the last 20 years of mediocrity and failure. You can make all the excuses you want, and frame things however you want, and issue all the pie-in-the-sky predictions you want, but a BSU coach who only wins 2 MAC tourney games in 6 years should be out on his ass. Not sure what your source is here, but the MAC tournament Wikipedia page says we are no longer the most successful program. According to it, both Ohio and Kent have more overall victories while both Ohio and Akron have a better winning percentage with Miami only slightly behind us. But you're certainly right that a coach who wins only 2 MAC tourney games in 6 years should be fired. Billy Taylor was. However, I will agree that Whitford has the Cards performing at a slightly higher level of mediocrity than did Taylor, although tournament results are exactly the same. To me it's interesting that from Steve Yoder to through Tim Buckley, only one coach (Al Brown) had a losing record (either overall or in conference). Since then, every coach has had a losing record. At the time Buckley was fired our MAC tournament winning percent was .702. When Whitford took over it was .625. It's now .578. We are definitely trending up, right?
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Post by lmills72 on Mar 28, 2020 13:47:49 GMT -6
We freaking need a stud guy in the middle. And seriously, any big kid worth a damn should be able to see they’d play, like right now. Today. Except for that whole perimeter offense thing whit operates that limits touches a post gets. I will be temporarily happy if we sign a stud big guy, but at the moment I would compare Whit to a car-chasing dog. Will he even know what to do with one if he catches it? Nothing about the way we play would indicate Whit is interested in utilizing a dominant big guy. Until I see it on the court, I will continue to be highly skeptical.
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Post by cardfan on Mar 28, 2020 13:57:46 GMT -6
We freaking need a stud guy in the middle. And seriously, any big kid worth a damn should be able to see they’d play, like right now. Today. Except for that whole perimeter offense thing whit operates that limits touches a post gets. I will be temporarily happy if we sign a stud big guy, but at the moment I would compare Whit to a car-chasing dog. Will he even know what to do with one if he catches it? Nothing about the way we play would indicate Whit is interested in utilizing a dominant big guy. Until I see it on the court, I will continue to be highly skeptical. Exactly.
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Post by thebsukid on Mar 28, 2020 13:58:30 GMT -6
First, after a season is over and before the new season starts most people make predictions! That’s what I did, actually I’m projecting we may be a few publications pre season pick!
Secondly, I’m simply saying that after the previous couple of seasons I like Hunsaker see a trend upwards!
Unfortunately for all, we didn’t get to play the MAC tournament this year so we don’t really know if we’d have played Akron in the final as Kempom projected
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Post by hunsaker76 on Mar 28, 2020 14:07:04 GMT -6
RMC...let me be clear. In my eyes Majerus and Hunsaker were the best coaches BSU has ever had. They were very very good How would you know anyway....way before your time.
I am not comparing Whitford to them at all. I posted last night about the struggles since then. Do not like it or promote it but there are alot of things that have gone against us.
It's a shame the season was cut short ....your call for his firing could have been appropriate if we lost right away in MAC tourney. I would have accepted that. Then again, maybe we would have made the Big Dance. We won't ever know.
Check out the financial structure of BSU football and basketball. With the Covid-19 implications also, there is no way we could afford to fire a coach right now and pay two coaches simultaneously. Just not gonna happen.
Dominant center is defined is a 18 and 12 guy that affects things in the paint and you can build your defense around.
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Post by cardfan on Mar 28, 2020 14:22:25 GMT -6
You are absolutely correct that there will be no coach firings at bsu. Not for awhile.
I would take an 18 and 12 guy every day of the week!
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Post by CallingBS on Mar 28, 2020 14:28:31 GMT -6
You are absolutely correct that there will be no coach firings at bsu. Not for awhile. I would take an 18 and 12 guy every day of the week! Um, yeah. Those are T Smith kind of numbers. Whit has never even sniffed at that kind of talent - why would he now?
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Post by cardfan on Mar 28, 2020 14:40:10 GMT -6
You are absolutely correct that there will be no coach firings at bsu. Not for awhile. I would take an 18 and 12 guy every day of the week! Um, yeah. Those are T Smith kind of numbers. Whit has never even sniffed at that kind of talent - why would he now? And that is the truth and the issue. Teague was as close as he’s been.
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Post by lmills72 on Mar 28, 2020 14:56:39 GMT -6
....your call for his firing could have been appropriate if we lost right away in MAC tourney. I would have accepted that. Interesting that for all your rah-rah talk about Whitford and the direction of the program, one game (one loss) would have convinced you that a it was acceptable to fire him. Now that's what I call solid support. Remind me to never ask you for an endorsement.
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Post by williamtsherman on Mar 28, 2020 15:16:15 GMT -6
Check out the financial structure of BSU football and basketball. With the Covid-19 implications also, there is no way we could afford to fire a coach right now and pay two coaches simultaneously. Just not gonna happen. It's not at all clear to me that the virus situation is going to make the basketball, and especially the football financial situation any worse. Remember that they are already total financial disasters. We are not talking about money-making ventures like the NFL or big-time college football. Just to take an extreme case- what if the football season was entirely cancelled? Of course the $10 million loss wouldn't just disappear. There are certain fixed costs that wouldn't go away, but I think it's very possible the overall money lost would be less. There is just not that much revenue to lose and your costs would fall by SOME amount. In such a case the money saved probably wouldn't ever be used to buy out coaches...but it might financially make sense.
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Post by williamtsherman on Mar 28, 2020 15:20:58 GMT -6
Something that sounds like it can't be true, but yet IS true, is that BSU is the all-time most successful program in the MAC tourney. This despite the last 20 years of mediocrity and failure. You can make all the excuses you want, and frame things however you want, and issue all the pie-in-the-sky predictions you want, but a BSU coach who only wins 2 MAC tourney games in 6 years should be out on his ass. Not sure what your source is here, but the MAC tournament Wikipedia page says we are no longer the most successful program. According to it, both Ohio and Kent have more overall victories while both Ohio and Akron have a better winning percentage with Miami only slightly behind us. We have the most championships, so I call us to most successful. I wouldn't trade one of those championships for twenty earlier round tourney wins.....or a thousand for that matter.
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Post by steve on Mar 28, 2020 15:22:11 GMT -6
Check out the financial structure of BSU football and basketball. With the Covid-19 implications also, there is no way we could afford to fire a coach right now and pay two coaches simultaneously. Just not gonna happen. It's not at all clear to me that the virus situation is going to make the basketball, and especially the football financial situation any worse. Remember that they are already total financial disasters. We are not talking about money-making ventures like the NFL or big-time college football. Just to take an extreme case- what if the football season was entirely cancelled? Of course the $10 million loss wouldn't just disappear. There are certain fixed costs that wouldn't go away, but I think it's very possible the overall money lost would be less. There is just not that much revenue to lose and your costs would fall by SOME amount. In such a case the money saved probably wouldn't ever be used to buy out coaches...but it might financially make sense. www.cbssports.com/college-basketball/news/ncaas-annual-distribution-to-division-i-schools-to-be-225-million-down-from-an-expected-nearly-600-million/
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Post by williamtsherman on Mar 28, 2020 15:46:00 GMT -6
Ah. So I see that my scenario doesn't apply to basketball as CBB has already incurred the bulk of their costs but lost out on their big money maker. Bad timing, that. But BSU football, on the other hand....
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